Let's talk about Dual Wielding...

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SayyadinaAtreides wrote:

Do me a favor and actually read this thread instead of the last post or two.

Okay. I've now read the thread a second time, because apparently the first time wasn't sufficient. With this newfound knowledge, I have deduced that Hatred and Added Fire still wouldn't be double-dipping from the dual-wield Damage multiplier.

Well drat, nothing has changed and my comment is still valid. Yes, it only adresses a sidenote (as did the comment I was responding to (made by you)). Opinionated said Hatred and Added Fire would double-dip if dual-wielding gained an Elemental Damage multiplier - I provided an option that would achieve the same thing, without the double-dipping. What's the big deal?

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Opinionated wrote:

With limited research, it seems like you are asking them to create a new modifier. Wands count as attacks (just keep that in mind).

It's just another Damage multiplier. Increased Fire Damage and Increased Physical Damage with One-handed Melee Weapons are both the same type of multiplier, namely Increased Damage. If GGG wanted, they could give an item Increased Totem Trap Damage. It doesn't 'exist' currently, but it's just another Damage multiplier with some subtypes slapped onto it.

There's also the fact that, as mentioned, the Crown of Eyes actually grants Attack Damage multipliers already, which can involve More Attack Damage.

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Opinionated wrote:

[math]
I don't know does that look right? I am in a rush to start racing lol. Seems really strong and looks like it is double dipping. Maybe you will come up with a better formula.

With all due respect, forget all that. :)

Added Damage is calculated before Conversion and before any sort of Damage multiplier. It creates a new Base Damage value relative to Base Physical Damage. This value is then effected by all modifiers that would apply to the new Damage type, plus the source's Damage type, in one single step (which is the usual Base * (Inc+Red) * More * Less). There is no way a single multiplier can ever apply to the same value twice, because there's only one step where it is relevant.

With numbers:
100 Base Phys
30% Added as Fire
100% Increased Physical Damage
80% Increased Elemental Damage
20% More Attack Damage
20% Reduced Attack Damage (because why not)

Base * (Increased+Reduced) * More * Less = Total

Physical Damage:
Benefits from Inc Phys, Red Atk, More Atk
100 * (1 + (100/100) + (-20/100)) * 1.2 = 216 Physical Damage

Fire Damage:
100 * 0.3 = 30 Base Fire Damage (from Physical)

Benefits from Inc Phys, Inc Ele, Red Atk, More Atk
30 * (1 + (100/100) + (80/100) + (-20/100)) * 1.2 = 93.6 Fire Damage


Double-dipping only occurs when there's two separate values. For example, Ignite double-dips from Increased Fire Damage because IFD applies to both the flat Fire Damage, and Ignite's Damage over Time. It does not literally apply to Ignite's Damage over Time twice.