DE is the simplest way to reason about skill damage. If you run Wrath and it adds +L lightning, then Dual Strike adds 1.8L base lightning, Heavy Strike adds 1.5L base lightning, Double Strike adds 1.4L base lightning, Infernal Blow adds 1.25L base lightning, Flicker Strike adds 1.25L base lightning, and so on.
There is a technicality to this. Dual strike is .9 + .9. Double strike is .7 + .7 ( I think ).
If both your 1h weapons had 2% life leech, will it add(4%) when you use dual strike? in general do all mods stacks when using dual strike? or when normally attacking w/ 2wield, do all the mods from the off hand adds to the attacking hand? or only the non-damage mods such as attributes, magic find, etc...?
No. If each weapon has 2% life leech, the each weapon will hit with 2% life leech.
DE is the simplest way to reason about skill damage. If you run Wrath and it adds +L lightning, then Dual Strike adds 1.8L base lightning, Heavy Strike adds 1.5L base lightning, Double Strike adds 1.4L base lightning, Infernal Blow adds 1.25L base lightning, Flicker Strike adds 1.25L base lightning, and so on.
There is a technicality to this. Dual strike is .9 + .9. Double strike is .7 + .7 ( I think ).
Given that elemental resists are not like the armor formula, this is an unimportant distinction.
If both your 1h weapons had 2% life leech, will it add(4%) when you use dual strike? in general do all mods stacks when using dual strike? or when normally attacking w/ 2wield, do all the mods from the off hand adds to the attacking hand? or only the non-damage mods such as attributes, magic find, etc...?
No. If each weapon has 2% life leech, the each weapon will hit with 2% life leech.
What he was saying here is that weapon-life-leech is a local mod, not a global mod.
If you had 2% global life leech and two weapons that each had 2% local life leech, then each hits for 4% and 4% respectively.
If both your 1h weapons had 2% life leech, will it add(4%) when you use dual strike? in general do all mods stacks when using dual strike? or when normally attacking w/ 2wield, do all the mods from the off hand adds to the attacking hand? or only the non-damage mods such as attributes, magic find, etc...?
No. If each weapon has 2% life leech, the each weapon will hit with 2% life leech.
I actually think he's looking at it like 2% global life leech is affecting both weapons, so each weapon has 2% life leech. The life leech mod that rolls on weapons is global, so if both weapons have that mod, each weapon will have 4% (this applies to the implicit claw mod, as well). At least the char screen sure says that they are global.
Last edited by HammerTeh2nd on Jun 13, 2014, 5:16:51 PM
If both your 1h weapons had 2% life leech, will it add(4%) when you use dual strike? in general do all mods stacks when using dual strike? or when normally attacking w/ 2wield, do all the mods from the off hand adds to the attacking hand? or only the non-damage mods such as attributes, magic find, etc...?
No. If each weapon has 2% life leech, the each weapon will hit with 2% life leech.
I actually think he's looking at it like 2% global life leech is affecting both weapons, so each weapon has 2% life leech. The life leech mod that rolls on weapons is global, so if both weapons have that mod, each weapon will have 4% (this applies to the implicit claw mod, as well). At least the char screen sure says that they are global.
Oh... this is true. I tested claw innate lgoh/ll and it was definitely global.
May be one of the rare cases where Mark read something incorrectly. :O
Do me a favor and actually read this thread instead of the last post or two.
Okay. I've now read the thread a second time, because apparently the first time wasn't sufficient. With this newfound knowledge, I have deduced that Hatred and Added Fire still wouldn't be double-dipping from the dual-wield Damage multiplier.
Well drat, nothing has changed and my comment is still valid. Yes, it only adresses a sidenote (as did the comment I was responding to (made by you)). Opinionated said Hatred and Added Fire would double-dip if dual-wielding gained an Elemental Damage multiplier - I provided an option that would achieve the same thing, without the double-dipping. What's the big deal?
With limited research, it seems like you are asking them to create a new modifier. Wands count as attacks (just keep that in mind).
It's just another Damage multiplier. Increased Fire Damage and Increased Physical Damage with One-handed Melee Weapons are both the same type of multiplier, namely Increased Damage. If GGG wanted, they could give an item Increased Totem Trap Damage. It doesn't 'exist' currently, but it's just another Damage multiplier with some subtypes slapped onto it.
There's also the fact that, as mentioned, the Crown of Eyes actually grants Attack Damage multipliers already, which can involve More Attack Damage.
[math]
I don't know does that look right? I am in a rush to start racing lol. Seems really strong and looks like it is double dipping. Maybe you will come up with a better formula.
With all due respect, forget all that. :)
Added Damage is calculated before Conversion and before any sort of Damage multiplier. It creates a new Base Damage value relative to Base Physical Damage. This value is then effected by all modifiers that would apply to the new Damage type, plus the source's Damage type, in one single step (which is the usual Base * (Inc+Red) * More * Less). There is no way a single multiplier can ever apply to the same value twice, because there's only one step where it is relevant.
With numbers:
100 Base Phys
30% Added as Fire
100% Increased Physical Damage
80% Increased Elemental Damage
20% More Attack Damage
20% Reduced Attack Damage (because why not)
Base * (Increased+Reduced) * More * Less = Total
Physical Damage:
Benefits from Inc Phys, Red Atk, More Atk
100 * (1 + (100/100) + (-20/100)) * 1.2 = 216 Physical Damage
Fire Damage:
100 * 0.3 = 30 Base Fire Damage (from Physical)
Benefits from Inc Phys, Inc Ele, Red Atk, More Atk
30 * (1 + (100/100) + (80/100) + (-20/100)) * 1.2 = 93.6 Fire Damage
Double-dipping only occurs when there's two separate values. For example, Ignite double-dips from Increased Fire Damage because IFD applies to both the flat Fire Damage, and Ignite's Damage over Time. It does not literally apply to Ignite's Damage over Time twice.
This is as far as I got in the thread, so I apologize for the "hey, someone else said that".
But, they already have a flat 20% increased melee damage multiplier that they could have used for a baseline of how to do it, and give the bonus to elemental damage, as well as phys.
"The Eye of Ra appears against you,
His force is powerful against you.
She devours you, she punishes you
In this her name 'Devouring Flame."
-Anubis Hotep
x% != flat
Melee != Attack
However,
Damage = Damage
They already have Damage modifiers implemented; giving something x% Increased/Reduced/More/Less Attack Damage doesn't involve creating anything *new*. It's just another Damage modifier with an already-existing tag attached to it.
On top of that there's still the fact that the Crown of Eyes already provides %I/R/M/L Attack Damage multipliers. This shit already exists.
Let's talk about something else than this now.
Last edited by Vipermagi on Jun 13, 2014, 7:45:08 PM
I actually think he's looking at it like 2% global life leech is affecting both weapons, so each weapon has 2% life leech. The life leech mod that rolls on weapons is global, so if both weapons have that mod, each weapon will have 4% (this applies to the implicit claw mod, as well). At least the char screen sure says that they are global.
Oh... this is true. I tested claw innate lgoh/ll and it was definitely global.
May be one of the rare cases where Mark read something incorrectly. :O
As far as I could tell (from in game testing) both implicit and explicit life leech mods are global. EDIT: To be clear that I mean amount of life leeched was based on the sum damage.
Each weapon hit is calculated separately, then they're combined into single combined damage package. Since stun is part of damage calculation, this is calculated separately for each weapon, and then the combined hit will stun if either of the hits stuns.
But elemental status effects are apparently based off the sum damage. If only GGG would give us the actual script, we would never get confused again.
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Last edited by Opinionated on Jun 13, 2014, 8:57:57 PM
So anyone expecting the mini patch next week or the expansion next month to address DW again, or do you think the dev's have tabled it for the time being?
"The Eye of Ra appears against you,
His force is powerful against you.
She devours you, she punishes you
In this her name 'Devouring Flame."
-Anubis Hotep
