What is so good about trading (as opposed to better loot)?

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biomuesli wrote:

Hey, I'll be that person to argue for trading. I've played some Arpgs (some with and some without trading). Diablo 1-3, Titan Quest, Sacred, etc.

I feel that self-found definitely has its pros, for example that "Ooh, I found a cool unique, I will make a build around it"-feeling, but on the other hand it severely limits how you can play the game. Want to do an unarmed build. Well too bad, you don't have a facebreaker. I don't want to make do with what I have, I want to play the build that appeals most.

Which one you prefer is up to you really. One thing that will not work is upping drop-rates but leaving trading in the game. Reaching BiS gear too soon WILL drive people away, having to "work" for the gratification is superior. I played a moderate amount of POE (well quite excessive for me but compared to what other people play I think it's not that much, about 350 hours total) and even I got a windripper, legacy aegis, legacy BoR, can afford to spend exalts here and there and so on.

Don't have Shavronnes, though, so I keep playing to make a lowlife build. If droprates were a lot better I'd have everything so no real challenge anymore (and yeah for some people leagues can fill that role but I like the steady progression of building my stuff slowly).

Don't see how standard economy is fucked, bad gear doesn't sell (while in new leagues it does), mediocre gear is dirt cheap, very good gear is very expensive, as is to be expected.

Just my 2cts.

But there are also people who like to play without challenge. I am one of them. In D2 I still run around playing my maxxed out necromancer killing Diablo WHILE AFK. Why? Because I like the feeling of seeing my character completely overpowered and roflstomping enemies. I would like to feel that in PoE too, except at any stage in the game you still feel like a weakling because the game pace feels so slow. My goal in any game is to make my character play the game as easy as possible, and with as little effort as possible. I play games to feel powerful and be relaxed, not to stress myself out. I'd like to not use my brain and brainlessly murder things if possible.

I planned many builds that could never be finish (or even started) simply because I know that the items I need for those builds will never drop. If I play a 300/100 MFer and never get any good uniques, what are the chances good uniques will drop for me when I don't run MF? Just the thought of that makes me feel like quitting already.

If you don't like trading play D3!!!!

Seriously...why do you want every single game be like other ones? Why you cannot be happy to have the freedom to play different ARPG's with complete different approaches? Why do you want to force people who dont like the Diablo3 approach, but the PoE one, to have no choice at all anymore?

I would prefer if there was some actual crafting in the game. So instead of gambling for prizes, you could actively work towards improving your existing items, perhaps by using special recipes to improve/change particular item affixes you are interested in, or even upgrade the base.

Sure, trading would still be a shortcut to really good stuff, but for the non-traders, the depressing idea of being at the mercy of RNG would be replaced by an idea of consciously working towards a good item. Plus, crafting would feel more immersive, e.g. a fantasy warrior continually improving his favourite piece of armor or weapon.

ARPGS are never about killing monsters but about lootz and showing it off.

You don't have to trade 24/7 to get BiS gear. However, that is the quickest way to get it. Flipping for 5 hours will net you more than couple of days of farming, on average.

Hell, if I haven't flipped something from time to time, I wouldn't had half of my gear and currency, let alone playing in top tier maps.

I think most people don't realize that even if GGG were to remove trading completely from the game they most likely wouldn't increase drop rates.
This game is heavily modeled after Diablo 2.
If you play single player D2 and compare the drop rates to this game they are extremely similar.

I love playing the game, don't love trading. I've learned economies and traded in other games, and this is when I've been bored and wanted to kill some time, its never been fun.

I'm not bored of playing PoE so I don't want to take the time out from enjoying myself to learn gear prices, set up shops, spam trade etc. I have a job, I don't want another.

For some it seems gear acquisition is the be all and end all, regardless of the route taken to get it, but I for one would not complain one bit if the only way to obtain loot was to do the fun stuff more.

oh, and the hardcore vs casual argument thrown around is as bollocks for this game it is when used in the context of any other game. no one person has the 'correct' way of enjoying themselves.

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oBLACKIECHANo wrote:

All of that is wrong? According to who? Some random like you with no argument? Lmao, cool story kid.

The funny thing is people like Midnitecloud are so utterly terrible at the game they they seriously think people trade constantly to get BiS gear. I have a kaoms in invasion, I have many other exalts of gear too, and guess what? I barely trade, anyone that is even worthy of an opinion on stuff like this has a shop and they know how to price things and they spend a few minutes between maps or boss runs to trade. It's not hard to make currency.

And you call trading a shortcut? I guess the 5 weeks it took me to earn the currency to buy my kaoms was a "shortcut" and increased drop rates must actually be making the game harder.


Also, it looks like you're a standard player, and then you wonder why you can't make currency or get the "best" items in a league with such an utterly fucked economy? Are you serious?

Do you realise how hilarious your post is?

OP was slightly exaggerating about irrational white knights the and you enter this thread screaming your balls off

lmao

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wooli wrote:

On the contrary, I recall one of the stories GGG had was talking about D2, and one of the cool things that would happen is if you found a certain unique item.. that you would then go build an entirely new character around.

Yet now the situation is reversed, you don't find an item and figure out a build. Now you pick a build (either from forum, asking others, playing with the passive tree simulator..or going to those build of the week videos), and then go and find that item (usually by trading).

So you are saying either A. there should be 0 trading allowed. You are restricted to what you find only. You want a single player game where the chance of what you find dictates how you play the game. Uniques should be super common for everyone and not really unique.

Or B. there are too many good drops as it is because you can just trade for what you want. Quality items should be super rare so everyone can't easily trade to get BiS gear.

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estu87 wrote:

look carefully "created Path of Exile as the game that we'd want to play ourselves." they just want to play trading game, GGG is just another capitalist game dev and our money has always been their goal. lol.

I don't know how to tell you this, but I bet you have played 1 or fewer highly developed games in your lifetime where the developer hasn't had a goal of making money. It might not be the main focus, but I can't think of a single example where someone or multiple someones committed thousands of hours with no expectation or hope of capital return.

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OleOlof wrote:

If you don't like trading play D3!!!!

Or adjust your expectations of the game. I don't expect to kill Aztiri with my character. I instead just run 66-70 maps currently. I'll move up as my character and gems level. I've spent a whopping 1c to get a bad 5l, which I replaced a few days later with something I found and crafted. I've sold a few items, but really just have 2 stash tabs about full with currency I have no desire to use besides altering maps and some gear I find.

I've found a few mid/good uniques and gear that I'm keeping with the expectation that I will one day make a character that is more capable of clearing higher difficulty content. I just understand that not everyone with every single character is meant to faceroll full clear all content.

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wooli wrote:

I am curious whether or not GGG wanted to base their game around trading.

If so they would have created a better trading system already.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/55102

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Path of Exile’s economy is the most important element of the game to us.

They literally built the game around the economy. It was the most important element of the game to them. Chris has said if they made trading easier they would have to lower drop rates in previous AH threads. There is a reason why we have been waiting for 2 years for a better trading system and it isn't because the developers don't have the time make one.