Sword & Sheath (weapon idea)

This is an idea aimed at the dual wielding swordsman, but still useful enough for other builds along the way.
In a dual weapon, or weapon+shield configuration, it'll behave like a regular one-hander with the sheath sitting in the inventory.

If the sword is equipped with an empty left hand though, the sheath occupies that hand, making dual-wield bonuses applicable to the character. I suggest the sheath might deal some damage, but primarily serves a defensive roll like stunning or blocking. The sheath naturally can't benefit from shield bonuses. Max sockets 3 like on a one-hander.

I think this idea might work, as long as things are tweaked wisely. So of course constructive criticisms about what the idea would need, before deciding outright it couldn't work, are appreciated most.

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Jutter wrote:

This is an idea aimed at the dual wielding swordsman, but still useful enough for other builds along the way.
In a dual weapon, or weapon+shield configuration, it'll behave like a regular one-hander with the hilt sitting in the inventory.

If the sword is equipped with an empty left hand though, the hilt occupies that hand, making dual-wield bonuses applicable to the character. I suggest the hilt might deal some damage, but primarily serves a defensive roll like stunning or blocking. The hilt naturally can't benefit from shield bonuses. Max sockets 3 like on a one-hander.

I think this idea might work, as long as things are tweaked wisely. So of course constructive criticisms about what the idea would need, before deciding outright it couldn't work, are appreciated most.

...you do realize that the hilt is the part of the sword you hold. Right?

Maybe he means the sheath? My best guess. It would be funny to see a man using a sword without a hilt in one hand (ow) and a hilt in the other trying to kill stuff, though.

I feel like a dunce. YES I meant sheath. Not hilt. English isn't my native language, but I could've looked it up. My bad. Adjustments made accordingly.

So about the idea itself though?

I don't really agree with your suggested implementation.

Here are several reasons why:
1 - Is it a completely new Item?
If not, how would the absence of properties be handled?
1a - It mirrors the properties & sockets granted by your sword? Those investing in an off-hand item might feel cheated.
1b - Grants no properties? Underpowered and ultimately useless.

2 - What would be the appearance of the Sheath?
2a - Always the same - Might not fit the sword model
2b - Based on the sword - Would require alot of new models
2c - New item, own model - Would have the problems of both 2a and 2b
2d - New item, BUT model based on equipped sword - Probably best option. Has none of the problems of 1, and has the problem of 2b, which is the least problematic as it at least always fits the sword.

That being said, I would indeed like some Quick Draw themed skills to be added, requiring a Sheath to use.

We'd finally have some proper "Rapier" swordsmanship.

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Nurvus wrote:

I don't really agree with your suggested implementation because you would lack the properties a second weapon or shield would give you.

This seems like a mere matter of keen tweaking. The trade-off would be that you can't benefit from shield-bonuses on the tree, but othere perks might make that tradeoff worthwhile, like lowering the stun threshhold. Stunned enemies don't deal blows to block.

Heavily edited my suggestion to a more "constructive" version - apparently while you replied.

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Jutter wrote:

I feel like a dunce. YES I meant sheath. Not hilt. English isn't my native language, but I could've looked it up. My bad. Adjustments made accordingly.

So about the idea itself though?

That's why I posted what I did. Not in a negative manner, either.

Anyways, I don't see how a sheath could offer any defensive attributes, and could only offer minimal offensive attributes.

If it offers defensive attributes, it will be comparable to a shield.

If it offers defensive and offensive attributes, then it becomes very similar to the ES shields that increase spell damage.

Either way, it will essentially break the game as it offers more than a shield. Shields currently only offer defensive attributes with a few exceptions. Something that offers block, in any form, along with offensive attributes will be a requirement for any non-dual weapon wielding build.

It would have to be a completely new mechanic and completely new option.

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Natharias wrote:

Anyways, I don't see how a sheath could offer any defensive attributes, and could only offer minimal offensive attributes.

If it offers defensive attributes, it will be comparable to a shield.

If it offers defensive and offensive attributes, then it becomes very similar to the ES shields that increase spell damage.

Actually, it totally makes sense that one would be able to do some minor blocking with a Sheath, as well as help you balance your weapon swings.

I do think, however, that:
1- It should not count as dual wield.
This would negate the benefit of dual wield nodes.

2 - It should not count as a Shield either.
This would negate the benefit of shield nodes.

3 - It should behave like a Quiver w/Block exclusively equippable with Daggers and Swords.

Explanation:
Dual Wielding only benefits are the block, attack speed bonus, dual wield nodes and dual wield-specific skills.
The second weapon doesn't really do anything other than "alternate" with your main-hand, since its damage properties only apply to itself.

This means being able to use all benefits of dual wielding without actually "sacrificing" the offhand with a second weapon, instead using an item that would somehow boost your main-hand damage, would be broken.

The same goes for Shields, although to a lesser extent.

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Natharias wrote:

Either way, it will essentially break the game as it offers more than a shield. Shields currently only offer defensive attributes with a few exceptions. Something that offers block, in any form, along with offensive attributes will be a requirement for any non-dual weapon wielding build.

It would have to be a completely new mechanic and completely new option.

Not if what I said above is done.

We have Dual Wield which offers offensive and defensive capabilities.

It can be done properly.

The real question is:
Will the gameplay it adds really compensate its development cost?

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Nurvus wrote:

"

Natharias wrote:

Anyways, I don't see how a sheath could offer any defensive attributes, and could only offer minimal offensive attributes.

If it offers defensive attributes, it will be comparable to a shield.

If it offers defensive and offensive attributes, then it becomes very similar to the ES shields that increase spell damage.

Actually, it totally makes sense that one would be able to do some minor blocking with a Sheath, as well as help you balance your weapon swings.

I do think, however, that:
1- It should not count as dual wield.
This would negate the benefit of dual wield nodes.

2 - It should not count as a Shield either.
This would negate the benefit of shield nodes.

3 - It should behave like a Quiver w/Block exclusively equippable with Daggers and Swords.

Explanation:
Dual Wielding only benefits are the block, attack speed bonus, dual wield nodes and dual wield-specific skills.
The second weapon doesn't really do anything other than "alternate" with your main-hand, since its damage properties only apply to itself.

This means being able to use all benefits of dual wielding without actually "sacrificing" the offhand with a second weapon, instead using an item that would somehow boost your main-hand damage, would be broken.

The same goes for Shields, although to a lesser extent.

"

Natharias wrote:

Either way, it will essentially break the game as it offers more than a shield. Shields currently only offer defensive attributes with a few exceptions. Something that offers block, in any form, along with offensive attributes will be a requirement for any non-dual weapon wielding build.

It would have to be a completely new mechanic and completely new option.

Not if what I said above is done.

We have Dual Wield which offers offensive and defensive capabilities.

It can be done properly.

The real question is:
Will the gameplay it adds really compensate its development cost?

I fail to see how it wouldn't break the game. You only stated that it would:

"

Explanation:
Dual Wielding only benefits are the block, attack speed bonus, dual wield nodes and dual wield-specific skills.
The second weapon doesn't really do anything other than "alternate" with your main-hand, since its damage properties only apply to itself.

This means being able to use all benefits of dual wielding without actually "sacrificing" the offhand with a second weapon, instead using an item that would somehow boost your main-hand damage, would be broken.

So it's essentially dual wielding but only with one weapon. How is that NOT broken?