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Even if desync gets lowered to the appropriate level, I wouldn't play hardcore league, one reason is my ISP. Every hour of so I get some disturbances.

The point is, there shouldn't be those shit log-outs, if you die, you die. That's the point of the real hardcore mode.

You kind of support my point in your response though? There is tons of people just like you who can sometimes DC once a day or once a week. Even once a month is too much in a game like PoE.

While PoE's server stability is usually great, I do recall times where suddenly everything would freeze up so I'd instantly logout. There is also instances where my modem needed replacing that would have resulted in my death.

It's just counterintuitive in an online game. It's a very small minority that even cares about people alt f4ing. For the overall game's benefit this system is much better.

Edit: Forgot to mention desnyc. Desync is shitty and is a huge issue in PoE so ya.. there is that. This is mainly something I found while using melee builds in nemesis where desync is much more prone to putting you in a dangerous situation that you have to log out of.

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kasub wrote:

You're missing the point. PoE is online so there will always be people with unstable connections. Even getting your modem reset once a month could result in a character dying after investing 100s of hours into said character.

Rare server issues/desync are also present in online games.

It really wouldn't matter if this was a short roguelike or a typical MMO with no hardcore mode but it's not.

This will always be an issue even with alt+f4, you might not notice your connection dropped until a few seconds later, and thats all the time it takes to RIP.

HC mode in an always online environment is always a sketchy prospect.

You do have valid points though, and alt+f4 does help minimize deaths due to lag/desynch, its just a shame that GGG is forced to balance the game around instant log outs.

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kasub wrote:

You kind of support my point in your response though? There is tons of people just like you who can sometimes DC once a day or once a week. Even once a month is too much in a game like PoE.

While PoE's server stability is usually great, I do recall times where suddenly everything would freeze up so I'd instantly logout. There is also instances where my modem needed replacing that would have resulted in my death.

It's just counterintuitive in an online game. It's a very small minority that even cares about people alt f4ing. For the overall game's benefit this system is much better.

Edit: Forgot to mention desnyc. Desync is shitty and is a huge issue in PoE so ya.. there is that. This is mainly something I found while using melee builds in nemesis where desync is much more prone to putting you in a dangerous situation that you have to log out of.

I don't think I am.

Hardcore mode should be merciless and unforgiving. If you're going to die, you'll die, there's no escape button that undoes that.

Mephasm is right, hardcore would be a real hardcore if the game isn't balanced around instant log-out, I actually cannot believe that this is the situation.
The fucking spike damage which is a product of that philosophy is disgusting to say at best. That's another area where D3 triumphs over PoE, there's no instant death, off screen idiotic death, etc.
One-shots are the easiest and the cheapest way to deal with the real problem.

As long as the hardcore league is as it's now, I cannot think of it as a hardcore league at all, when you have a life saving button in the environment I've already described (monster damage).
What's really hardcore in all that, is how fast you can hit your log-out macro, fucking hilarious.

Should I even mention the Invaders and the new exile patch...

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

I think they definitely overtuned some of those invasion bosses. they always do with new content though, its always crazy hard.


I think people have to try and understand the mindset of the devs though. I think the way they play, they like to race through content, see how far they can get, and they do so in a throw away fashion. What I mean by that is they dont give a shit, if they die, meh, if their loot gets ninjad, meh, its all fun and games, I feel like they laugh when these things happen to them. Its just a game, its just for fun, reroll and do it again, experience that thrill of near death and the elation of besting those foes, the thrill of ninja looting ur mates op unique/orb, the banter than ensues. Its just pixels.

That may be a more casual mindset than many of us have, it may be completely alien to us, it may seem like what you do when you are so bored of games that you cant really take items and characters seriously any more so you need those extremes to make it fun and engage you in the moment, and maybe thats what it is, whos to say. They certainly have a different take on things than a lot of us, it happens, pro musicians tend to listen to very strange, inaccessible, 'difficult' music, film buffs get to the stage where David Lynch movies just arnt weird enough for them, its a common trend. I think the devs fight a constant battle to stay true to their vision as artists while trying to accommodate the alien mindsets of the player base. I feel like theyve been bent to our will on many occasions and the game is a better game for them having stuck to their guns against our will on occasion.

That said, yes some bosses were verging on retarded when Inv went live, but before that the game was wayyyy to easy when u knew what you were doing. The hardest part of the game was having the patience to wait for RNG to drop you a map that would give you xp. I think a lot of players grew soft, got too used to knowing how to beat everything, got lazy and now theyre being pussies because they actually have to play the game again. I feel like thats definitely a factor.

I cant wait till the invasion bosses come to the full leagues, I love the idea. Personally I cant be bothered playing invasion, I still give a shit about the game too much to give hardcore the time of day. Id end up like Kripp and Nugi, Id play for a while, end up ripping everything, feel like its pointless doing it all again for the 100th time and Id go play a shitty scrub game from Blizzard. But Im looking forward to being chased out of a map by a vicious enemy, there isnt enough of that sort of challenge in the perm leagues right now.

 If any of what you just said is true then the devs are completely off base in their thinking and that is going to lead to them going bankrupt (or only getting a very small revenue stream for having few players left).

 We as long term players are not wanting to just throw away a hardcore league character and start over every month or so. We want to see if we can get a build to 100 and retire it and then start over with a completely different build. Hey GGG, come to think about it, if we could get a build to level 100, have it pardoned for being falsely convicted of crimes, and get to leave Wraeclast as a free person, then that character is retired permanently so we must start over with a new build, that is actually a worthy goal and motivation to grind to get to level 100. The gear we are using and carrying gets placed into a remove-only tab, the character build with gear and gems used to reach level 100 and stats with how long we've had the build and total time played to reach level 100 is placed on a pardoned exile league ladder with fastest time at the top and a link to the passive tree so everyone else can learn from it for their own builds.

 That's what you should be doing to put the "fun" back into PoE. Not trying to prevent us from reaching level 100 but actually encouraging us to grind to level 100 and retire the build and then start over with another class and new build. Why, you could have another achievement and prize for getting a build to 100 and then offer a super grand prize for getting a build in all 7 classes to level 100. That's a motivation worthy of continuing to play PoE. GGG's thinking that "we need to keep players from reaching level 100 at all costs" is complete crap and bull shit and is certainly driving (has driven) millions of arpg-ers away from PoE. Stop killing the fanbase and reverse your thinking on PoE difficulty. Nothing kills our desire to play PoE more than playing a build for 100s of hours to get to the 80s and 90s levels and then an off-screen uber rogue comes and blind sided one shots us. We all freeze up in shock, than we get angry and swear obscenities at the devs if we don't have kids within hearing distance (I hope no one swears in front of the kids) for GGG having caused this atrocity, and then we rage quit PoE. Maybe we come back at the start of the next 4 month league to see what's new, but a lot of us will move on and never come back.

 If GGG can't understand that we don't want our hardcore and softcore builds to be thrown out with the weekly trash and that playing a build to level 100 has real meaning to us, then we might as well all get out now and let GGG have their unplayble arpg all to themselves.

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tinko92 wrote:

I don't think I am.

Hardcore mode should be merciless and unforgiving. If you're going to die, you'll die, there's no escape button that undoes that.

Mephasm is right, hardcore would be a real hardcore if the game isn't balanced around instant log-out, I actually cannot believe that this is the situation.
The fucking spike damage which is a product of that philosophy is disgusting to say at best. That's another area where D3 triumphs over PoE, there's no instant death, off screen idiotic death, etc.
One-shots are the easiest and the cheapest way to deal with the real problem.

As long as the hardcore league is as it's now, I cannot think of it as a hardcore league at all, when you have a life saving button in the environment I've already described (monster damage).
What's really hardcore in all that, is how fast you can hit your log-out macro, fucking hilarious.

Should I even mention the Invaders and the new exile patch...

#thesoftcoredelusion

I still can't believe that the only way to balance out the difficulty is to encourage logging out/alt F4.

The real problem is that they feel that they have to continually make the game harder than it was last week. It's gotten out of hand and players are simply quitting rather than meeting the challenge. There's no reason to meet a challenge if that only leads to the rules being changed to one-up you after you have.

Make the game fun. Make it challenging. Quit trying to kill everyone.

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mazul wrote:

Another update:

.....

After that I died a 3rd time, this time on at lv65 (lv70 is max regular level) and I am not happy about how I died this time.

I was playing in expert mode (Normal -> Hard -> Expert -> Master -> torment levels) with a Barbarian playing it as melee and it was many times when I felt like "I am dying, I am dying".

Everything was nice and dandy until I hit the act V final boss final phase. All of sudden my character and boss stops moving, then like 5-10 seconds later, I get the "You are dead" message.

While I was frozen, I quickly tried to enter random website to see if my connection was down: the result was my internet was very well working since the websites loaded smoothly. So the conclusion is that Blizzard's shitty servers caused my death.

It was a death beyond my control, and that's the worst kind of deaths there is. I sent a support ticket to try find out what exactly happened from a technical standpoint. Of course, I do not expect a restoration, but I do expect at very least some information about how they fucked up. And maybe, just maybe, an apology.
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Until that ticket is resolved, I won't be playing hardcore anymore. Because bullshit deaths are bullshit.

this post shows how D3's logout timer does not help in case of a disconnect/server crash/severe packet loss, at all. in fact, it's a problem.

furthermore, he's a good video on why D3 logout timer sucks, relevant stuff starting at about 3:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYxgx2fJ6lo

d3' solution is in no way superior to poes solution, at the very least

The power creep is quite strong in this game, and to add insult to injury they continue to nerf player options and vital mechanics (leech). The result is that the player is pingeonholed into a handful of viable builds.

Some people say they want the game to be challenging, yet those same people build dual Searing Bond into Righteous Fire, taking the path of least resistance. If they want a real challenge, they should try playing with a build that isn't the OP flavor of the month.

The challenge of this game is derived directly from the quality of your gear and what build you are using, it would then stand to reason that increasing the challenge would require that you get better gear, and use a more powerful build, thus eliminating weaker builds as an option.

This is not the kind of game I want to play, where only a select few builds will allow you to progress, and only if you grind/trade enough to collect the required gear. This is one of the main reasons I quit D3 two months after release.

Basically what I'm saying is that they need to either balance the game around the average skills/builds or significantly buff certain underpowered player options and skills so that more builds will be viable. However, the leech changes tell me that they are moving in the exact opposite direction. Nerfing a mechanic that almost every build uses and relies on without providing any kind of alternative life/mana gain is completely absurd.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Make the game fun. Make it challenging. Quit trying to kill everyone.

Chris stated in an interview that HC players want to be killed. This is of course, entirely false. HC players want the fear of potential death, and the thrill of overcoming it. Ideally death in an HC league should only result if the player is careless or undergeared for what they are trying to do.

But yeah, fun is first and foremost in a game, challenging is fine, but there is always that line, and I think GGG has stepped over it.

they will do anything to get the money off your wallet