Are Totem passives really worth it? (Flame Totem)

!This thread is based on a Flame Totem build that uses Added Chaos, which is only affected by Spell Damage!

I believe that most Totem passive clusters aren't worth pursuing. The damage nodes are too low compared to available spell damage nodes, and the cast speed nodes are equivalent to the recently buffed cast speed nodes for Witch and Shadow start.

The only reason a totem user would pursue totem nodes is for Totem survivability, however, my planning has made me realize that you would need to give up your own surviability for the totem's. That's just not a good tradeoff.

For my build, I start as a Witch because of the strong spell damage start:
16% spell dmg x2 -> 4% cast speed x3 -> 20% elemental damage -> 10% spell damage x3

Also, Flame Totem costs a lot, so EB is a must. The health and mana nodes are the best for EB.

Here's a list of the Totem Node Clusters:

- 14% summoning speed -> 8% dmg/16% life -> 25% duration -> Ancestral Bond (Dual Totem)
- 4% cast speed -> Shamanistic Fury 16% damage/8% damage
- 8% damage x3/6% phys dmg reduction -> 10 all res -> Totemic Mastery 14% damage and 12% life
- 7% summoning speed and 2% cast speed -> 8% damage/14% summoning speed -> Ironwood 12% damage and 15 all res and 10% phys dmg reduction
- 25% duration -> 16% life/15% range
- 4% cast speed -> 12% life and 15% duration/Totemic Zeal 30% summoning speed

For the damage nodes, the Witch start has 62% spell damage and 20% elemental damage available to her, and here are 82% worth of Totem damage nodes altogether. This means 6 witch nodes are almost equivalent to 9 nodes. As for the cast speed nodes, the Witch already has more cast speed than the totem nodes.

For survivability, the resist and the physical damage reduction isn't enough to survive the toughest mobs. As a totem user, you will definitely be resummoning totems a lot. I've opted to find survivability through other methods, like blind support gem and dual/tri curses, rather than travel several points into the marauder area for those resist/phys reduction nodes.

Summoning speed is a very inefficient passive to take. If you are using totems, you would want global applied cast speed stats. I have enough cast speed from gear, gems and passives to cast totems quickly, so I don't see the point of these nodes.

In summary, the totem nodes are really lacking after the buffs to the witch start. 9 nodes for Witch completely outranks the Totem nodes, so all she needs is dual totem. Also, she's close to dual totem and Eldritch Battery, which EB is necessary for the high cost of Flame Totem. I really see no reason to take the Totem nodes other than dual totem, and perhaps Shamanistic Fury, so I hope they might get noticed when there is another round of balance updates.

And for anyone wondering, because I use added chaos, Templar start is pretty weak with only the Elemental Nodes.

Agreed. But it's in line with how things are balanced out.
Consider the ranged vs melee question and note the nodes on the tree.

Ranged typically get 8% Increased Damage + 10% boosts + 16-18% notables
Melee typically get 12% Increased Damage + 18% boosts + 24% notables

Why? Melee are in danger of dying so they need to kill faster. Ranged can kite and DPS from afar (while melee has travel time too)

This is similarly applied to totems (which can only use ranged skills)
Totems have 8% Increased + 14-16% (two) notables

However, you can have 2 of them (effectively nullifying the 50% less damage part and allowing for things like SB and lightning warp combos) and THEY draw aggro so you're more SAFE (which is invaluable).

So yes, totems have less damage, but they make up for it in safety (plus now you are the totem's full time support with curses and culling which can't be simultaneously done just by a self caster)

I do agree though that it'd be nice to see changes to some totem nodes to make them more used. Currently, Ironwood cluster is the only set that are remotely near anywhere a totem user would spend points to go and that's only if they're desperate.

W, what? Totem Damage doesn't increase Totem Chaos Damage? That doesn't sound right.

Eldritch Battery isn't mandatory, it merely saves you around 3 to 6 skill points and an aura slot. Maxed Clarity with over 100% mana regeneration is the other option; the dual Life+Mana nodes provide enough gas to equip the Clarity.

The Totem nodes are not intended to be chase stats, just like the Aura, DoT and Trap ones aren't either. You don't go thousands of points out of your way for them: you take core stats and pick up anything that just happens to be near by. For example, with Lightning Trap you want lightning and projectile damage. That's core to Shadow and Witch. You can take High Explosives, Saboteur and Clever Construction since they're next to life% on that backbone; Expeditious Munitions and Master Sapper are forever closed to you.

In the same vein is the totem damage. If you're not using Ancestral Bond, Totem damage isn't a core stat for you. You shouldn't even want it, your skill points are precious. But if you are, they're very reasonable, as unlike Physical%, the tree isn't saturated with an endless supply of cheap elemental spell damage.

Totemic Mastery is fantastic if you're taking Shaper and adjacent Life%. If you're not, by definition you've overextended your backbone by being there so why are you even there to begin with.

(Additionally, may I just humbly point out, the tertiary regions in which Totem% is located are also backbones where Minion power is located as well. Two things that are rather synergistic with one another...)

"

LimitedRooster wrote:

W, what? Totem Damage doesn't increase Totem Chaos Damage? That doesn't sound right.

Eldritch Battery isn't mandatory, it merely saves you around 3 to 6 skill points and an aura slot. Maxed Clarity with over 100% mana regeneration is the other option; the dual Life+Mana nodes provide enough gas to equip the Clarity.

The Totem nodes are not intended to be chase stats, just like the Aura, DoT and Trap ones aren't either. You don't go thousands of points out of your way for them: you take core stats and pick up anything that just happens to be near by. For example, with Lightning Trap you want lightning and projectile damage. That's core to Shadow and Witch. You can take High Explosives, Saboteur and Clever Construction since they're next to life% on that backbone; Expeditious Munitions and Master Sapper are forever closed to you.

In the same vein is the totem damage. If you're not using Ancestral Bond, Totem damage isn't a core stat for you. You shouldn't even want it, your skill points are precious. But if you are, they're very reasonable, as unlike Physical%, the tree isn't saturated with an endless supply of cheap elemental spell damage.

Totemic Mastery is fantastic if you're taking Shaper and adjacent Life%. If you're not, by definition you've overextended your backbone by being there so why are you even there to begin with.

(Additionally, may I just humbly point out, the tertiary regions in which Totem% is located are also backbones where Minion power is located as well. Two things that are rather synergistic with one another...)

Totem Damage does. I meant Templar's start with Elemental Damage. Elemental doesn't affect chaos.

I'm definitely not sure mana regen and clarity are going to cut it. You definitely need the high mana pool. Clarity is only going to max out 25ish mana regen, and even if you increase that with 100% mana regen and 50-80 aura effect, that's not going to give you the 250-300 mana regen needed for a good Flame Totem.

I'm running a build with max block, EB, AA, 246% life. To get 100% mana regen from the tree is a lot of points.

The 8% totem nodes are weak, but your totems will die before they even get to cast in a lot of circumstances if you don't have some totem defense nodes. In that respect, totem life=increased DPS.

totems suck after the nerf in the Vaal expansion if you ask me. Investing heavily in the tree for it seems like a suboptimal choice as a result to me.

Um... I think some people are missing the point here. I too an overwhelmingly finding that increase spell damage and increase cast speed generic nodes are much more effective than totem nodes. That is the point: totem nodes have become pretty much obsolete. The shamanic fury and ancestral bond cluster are the only worthwhile totem nodes for totem users. After that you're much better going after elemental nodes, cast speed nodes, spell damage nodes, or fire damage nodes even. As a templar fire totem user I'd rather to go all the way up to the witch fire wheel than pick up the totem nodes south of me.

"

EonLight wrote:

Um... I think some people are missing the point here. I too an overwhelmingly finding that increase spell damage and increase cast speed generic nodes are much more effective than totem nodes. That is the point: totem nodes have become pretty much obsolete. The shamanic fury and ancestral bond cluster are the only worthwhile totem nodes for totem users. After that you're much better going after elemental nodes, cast speed nodes, spell damage nodes, or fire damage nodes even. As a templar fire totem user I'd rather to go all the way up to the witch fire wheel than pick up the totem nodes south of me.

I think you're basically right, but... Totem nodes are more generic than say, fire nodes. Totem nodes could be good whether I'm using flame, or shockwave, or arc... etc. Generic nodes have to be a bit weaker for balance reasons.

You're also right in the sense that most totem builds don't go out of their way for totem nodes, because other stuff is more efficient along the way, which is also fine.

If totem nodes were just as efficient as ele damage nodes then shockwave would be absolutely insane (it's already really good) because the only hitch to using that skill is finding ways to scale it efficiently. Flame totem is already worse than SWT for clear speed in spite of the better efficiency of fire nodes compared to totem nodes.

Hi

Of course Ele damage doesn't work with chaos, I would suggest getting nodes that increase damage such as Iron wood or craft some jewels with more totem damage or such.

cheers

"

Whoaness wrote:

I'm definitely not sure mana regen and clarity are going to cut it. You definitely need the high mana pool. Clarity is only going to max out 25ish mana regen, and even if you increase that with 100% mana regen and 50-80 aura effect, that's not going to give you the 250-300 mana regen needed for a good Flame Totem.

I think you didn't look seriously into that direction.
With clarity i'm currently sitting at 110 mana/sec (using infernal mantle - so i'm safe)

You talked about survavibility earlier, EB will reduce it, by a lot that's why i never took and was using mana pot until I found the right gear to sustain mana regen.

Totem survavibility is a must too. Dead totem = no dps. I had a hard time with the crit version of the build because less totem node for life/resist. I invested in jewels with those stats and it's great.