Leech: GGG clarify please!

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tikitaki wrote:

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Emphasy wrote:

Which skill does small bursts in a short period and then nothing?

I have no idea what you are asking.

Well he's asking which skill does small bursts in a short period and then nothing.

And the answer is: most single-hit AoE skills.

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Vipermagi wrote:

Except you'll not hit just once. You keep attacking, which is a far cry from "nothing".

Of course, that goes without saying.

Hit-leech-nothing-hit-leech-nothing-hit-leech-nothing-hit-leech-nothing-hit-leech-nothing...

Really can't understand the agitation over the leech changes. Tried my incinerator, fireball, fp, facebreaker and reave toon and all are still fine.

Looking at an average shotgun fireballer with LMP:
You have 4000 life and do 5000 damage per fireball with a life leech rate of 8.8 (lvl 20 gem). You can leech 800 per second. Let's assume the leeched damage of 2 of the 3 LMP fireballs gets discarded now because of the non-stacking: The 440 leech you get (5000 x 8.8%) will then be scaled so that you leech the max amount possible: The 440 will be leeched over 0.55 seconds.
With a realistic cast speed of 0.68 seconds per cast for fireball that means there could be a 0.13 second gap between leech packages (worst case). That means over the span of 1 second you might loose up to 13% leech compared to the old mechanics. Or to put it another way the effect is like leeching with 7.66% instead of 8.8%.
That may vary depending on the damage you deal of course. With only 4000 instead of 5k damage, the leech penalty would be around 20% (that's 7% effective leech rate).
Now is that drastic? I remember playing with 3% life leech before the gem got boosted and surviving. In most of the fights the difference won't be noticable and if an effective 7% ll rate ain't enough for the boss one shouldn't blame the gem mechanic.

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Bada_Bing wrote:

Really can't understand the agitation over the leech changes. Tried my incinerator, fireball, fp, facebreaker and reave toon and all are still fine.

Perhaps because you didn't read the thread and most of us are talking about mana rather than life.

Lesson 1 on good posting: read first, then post.

Or maybe you're one of those people who thinks pretty much everybody is "supposed to be" using blood magic.

Given my fireball example:
5k damage leeches 255 mana with a lvl 20 mana gem; 4k leeches 202 mana.
Max mana pool 1000: max leech per second 125 mana.
You would need a massive 2.376 mana pool before any gaps in leeching mana could occur.

Mana leech is affected even less than life leech.

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Bada_Bing wrote:

Given my fireball example:
5k damage leeches 255 mana with a lvl 20 mana gem; 4k leeches 202 mana.
Max mana pool 1000: max leech per second 125 mana.
You would need a massive 2.376 mana pool before any gaps in leeching mana could occur.

Mana leech is affected even less than life leech.

5k damage /dealt/. Leech doesn't work on some artificial theoretical DPS value. It works based on how much damage you actually dealt to the mob, after their resistances/mitigations/etc.

So you're dealing...10k? 20k? single target damage per fireball? depending on the resistance of the mob?

What about attacking in AoE, or with a skill like Chain? is that a reasonable amount of damage to be doing /per arrow/? Per projectile?

What about the fact that you now need Mana Leech gem AND Life Leech gem? No big deal?

Your analysis is overly simplified and headache inducing, also highly unrealistic.

In fact, fireball is probably one of the easiest skills to use in this fashion as it hits very hard initially, resulting in good leech. Rather than a ton of smaller additive hits that result in small individual leech at the same time (chain with fast moving projectiles eg arrows).

if mana leech was capped before the change there is NO CHANGE during the fight. changes are between the fights as the last hit now is the last leech. previously players were leaving combat with pre-leeched mana/life that topped them up for free

capped == single hit of your ability dealt enough damage to saturate the leech rate.

in case of split arrow+chain.. well.. tough but these were good enough basically for free for too long so maybe it is a design decision to make people think that good things in life always have a price

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sidtherat wrote:

capped == single hit of your ability dealt enough damage to saturate the leech rate.

There is no such thing as a "capped leech rate". All leech happens at the same rate.

See Mark_GGG's quoted comment on the last page.

Unless you mean something like "you leech enough from your hit that you continue to leech until your next attack hits."

Edit: And if that is what you mean, then there were shitloads of builds who could "cap" their leech in this fashion before, but not now.

It seems hard for people to understand why the change results in less mana leeched.

If I hit 5 mobs at once with enough damage to take 0.1 seconds to leech all the mana back...despatch I leech at that rate for 0.5 seconds. Post patch I leech at that rate
For 0.1 seconds. That's why we leech less after the patch.