Solo = better loot

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tinko92 wrote:

There might be builds like RF that cannot run no regen maps, but can they swap RF for some other skill and do the map with 50% efficiency?

Unfortunately, no. If you went RF as your main damage source you just have a crapload of EHP stacked, no damage, nothing, you can't clear at all. Maybe you could try with searing bond but your totems would die too easily.

Arctic tanks are also severely crippled without AA, they invested too many gear and passives to make AA work. And you know how defenses work here, 30% less in defenses is 60% less survivability or more.

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raics wrote:

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Mr_Cee wrote:

not every 'average' endgame player really owns the different setups (in gear and gems) to swap that easily between the different needs to handle all 'countersettings'. Some rely (viable!) on regen, some on leech and some on flasks; any of these can work fine until its ability gets nullified... and there's NO simple way to swap between, they are whole different builds. (just as basic example)

True, doing righteous fire or arctic armor builds on half regen maps is practically unfeasible, also those that do chaos damage over time if you're Life/ES with low life pool, summoners mostly fit that group.

That probably isn't good but it's what devs intended, they did state a few times that 'not every char should be able to do all maps, that's why they're optional, tradeable and reroll-able'.

Tried Searing Touch with quality Flameblast and quality support gems? The burn DPS should be high enough in most cases even without node investments. Not sure about survivability, esp. in half regen maps for these chars though.

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raics wrote:

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tinko92 wrote:

There might be builds like RF that cannot run no regen maps, but can they swap RF for some other skill and do the map with 50% efficiency?

Unfortunately, no. If you went RF as your main damage source you just have a crapload of EHP stacked, no damage, nothing, you can't clear at all. Maybe you could try with searing bond but your totems would die too easily.

Arctic tanks are also severely crippled without AA, they invested too many gear and passives to make AA work. And you know how defenses work here, 30% less in defenses is 60% less survivability or more.

Lets say it's impossible to modify a RF build.

Arctic tanks? That exists?
Severely crippled without AA? Can't buy that.
What 30% less in defenses? It's just a flat damage reduction, get some flasks to compensate.

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tinko92 wrote:

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raics wrote:

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tinko92 wrote:

There might be builds like RF that cannot run no regen maps, but can they swap RF for some other skill and do the map with 50% efficiency?

Unfortunately, no. If you went RF as your main damage source you just have a crapload of EHP stacked, no damage, nothing, you can't clear at all. Maybe you could try with searing bond but your totems would die too easily.

Arctic tanks are also severely crippled without AA, they invested too many gear and passives to make AA work. And you know how defenses work here, 30% less in defenses is 60% less survivability or more.

Lets say it's impossible to modify a RF build.

Arctic tanks? That exists?
Severely crippled without AA? Can't buy that.
What 30% less in defenses? It's just a flat damage reduction, get some flasks to compensate.

Of course it exists and it's pretty effective too, anyway, they spent many points chasing mana nodes, once AA is off those are 100% wasted.

I wish it was that simple, even life isn't that straightforward, if a certain reduction in hitpoints puts you in danger of getting oneshot it's far more severe survivability hit than raw numbers show.
Also, if you have 50% less armor you don't take twice as much damage, it's at least three times more. Same if you throw out endurance charges, 20% physical reduction is a huge loss because of stacking with armor. And if you turn off AA you can't absorb what's left so you lose even more.

That is what I've meant by playing those mods with less efficiency.

Saying that one cannot play without AA is bullshit, we both know it.
It doesn't matter how many mana nodes he invested, in the end, it's just ~200 flat reduction to only phys and fire damage.

I know all about armour synergy and how well AA ices up the cake, but it's just an icing after all.

Bring flasks to compensate that, simple.

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tinko92 wrote:

That is what I've meant by playing those mods with less efficiency.

Saying that one cannot play without AA is bullshit, we both know it.
It doesn't matter how many mana nodes he invested, in the end, it's just ~200 flat reduction to only phys and fire damage.

I know all about armour synergy and how well AA ices up the cake, but it's just an icing after all.

Bring flasks to compensate that, simple.

Well, it's not that it can't be done at all, maybe it would be better to say 'can't be done rationally'. If you have to shift around a lot of items, gems, change slot colors, flasks and such just to run one map mod nobody will bother with it, and if nobody does it, might be said it's realistically unfeasible. The same as tree falling in the empty forest, really.

There are very fragile setups in the game, where one component failing means a total fail. Sure, if you build mainstream there's a lot of room for error and a lot of space for tweaks and fixes, but if you don't it can be a really fine edge to walk.

Yes, we could argue those builds 'aren't good', but it all depends on the purpose of the build, if you want a workhorse build to get you on your feet you go for surefire, if you go for fun factor you might want to be a little creative and stretch it a bit. It's pretty much spike vs johhny, spike always goes for optimal bang for the buck and likes to be prepared for everything, for johnny it doesn't have to work always, but when everything kicks in it must work badass.

Are we still on AA build?

I don't think it's even right way to call them AA builds, because relying only on AA as a damage mitigation is a very bad move?

If it's not the only defense, then losing AA isn't a big loss at all.
All what's required are Granite and Jade flasks.

I would never reroll a map because someone wants to run his AA.

Blood Magic is the only rerollable mod, no regen could be because of RF builds, but the number of RF builds isn't really big at all.
I would only reroll a no regen map if my friend runs a RF build, for anyone else, nope.

If we start gathering all those mods that an average player "can't" do, we'd be having dozen of mods.

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tinko92 wrote:

I would only reroll a no regen map if my friend runs a RF build, for anyone else, nope.

Of course, most players wouldn't do it for their only brother, that's fine.

Was talking about this particular part:

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tinko92 wrote:

If one cannot "optimize" his build to just play the map even with 50% of efficiency, he sucks.

Nothing to do with uber end game items and anything related to that, just pure laziness/ignorance and lack of knowledge.

It's not ignorance and whatnot, some builds must be picky about mods. People know what they should do to be able to play them but the effort needed is nowhere proportional to the reward, it's a conscious choice, you accept not being able to play it. I'm sure your friend with RF build wouldn't even ask you to reroll the map.

Seriously stop it with bloodmagic, I've run hundreds of maps on my CI rangers, blue and rares, and I've never ever ever ever seen a bloodmagic pop on a map with this char.

However, on my BM witch, I've done maybe 30 maps or so and I've had 2 BM maps already.

From this I safely assume that BM is NOT more rerollable than no regen maps, sacrificing auras means just less efficiency.

AA is a huge deal when use at level 16+, the best example about is it misscreations and voidbearers, whatever the mods ( I've not tried the worst combo tbh, but I don't think I'm mistaking on that ), you are basically immune to those monsters with maxed Arctic Armor.

The only thing that is really immune to regen mods is : leech.
Trade the no-regen mode for a 50%less leech mode would seem much more fair to me.
( free bump for my suggestion )

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tinko92 wrote:

If one cannot "optimize" his build to just play the map even with 50% of efficiency, he sucks.

Nothing to do with uber end game items and anything related to that, just pure laziness/ignorance and lack of knowledge.

So ... basically, anyone using ES as main buffer has to rely on leech, otherwise he sucks ?
Nice build diversity.
Just no for this one.

Some builds.

Yet complaining about map mods comes from about 50% of players, mostly about reflect and regen mods.

So far, builds that cannot possibly do some map mods are RF and CI.
I didn't know about RF not being able to utilize any skill for at least 50% of efficiency, so we can put it there.
But, technically they can do the map, "just" not using RF.

Any other builds complaining about mods are a sign of ignorance/laziness or lack of knowledge.