General Discussion - Assorted tips to barter like a sir and other concerns about trading etiquette - Forum

" morbo wrote: Spoiler Since I hate haggling I usually ask the seller for the price. If it's acceptable then ok, else goodbye. I also try to write down the price for the stuff I link in trade, so people already know what to expect. I haven't yet encountered insulting people, maybe because in HC league there are less as****es than in default. It's a way of doing it, sure (and again, we can prevent your asking and the seller replying if seller already knows what he wants to get for his item). But how many good deals you might be losing because of the person you're interacting with having your same mentality? Or just the time wasted. Not judging, by the way. " OdinTGE wrote: Spoiler I agree in theory, but honestly I have no idea what stuff is worth. I played this game for some beta event months and months and then just started again when open beta began. At this point I really don't have an idea of how rare certain orbs are or anything. Some things seem rare to me now, but I'm barely into act 3 normal. Stuff I think is super cool now may actually be worth pennies and I just don't know it yet. It's pretty much impossible to have any idea what to offer/ask for when you don't have a really solid knowledge of things. That's fine. Learning to barter and how to appraise stuff is all part of learning the game. This isn't about people lowballing or not getting their rates right (see B!). This is about poor manners. You can be clueless. Or you can be a clueless dick. Last edited by dndallasta on Jan 28, 2013, 4:48:20 AM	Posted by dndallasta on Jan 28, 2013, 4:47:45 AM Quote this Post
bump	Posted by Parun on Jan 28, 2013, 5:23:12 AM Quote this Post
Spoiler " dndallasta wrote: me: WTS dude: how much me: offer? dude: rofl u offer i wait lol dude: k fk it cya This marvelous exchange with a fellow player triggered me to write up some suggestions to perhaps help trim the douchedick populace one day. Bartering can be awesome but it can also be a huge waste of time with some of these colorful characters around. This isn't about buyer vs. seller. This isn't about in-game economy or finances. This is about manners and making trading a bit more comfortable for everyone. It's about economy of words and time. A. Don't be a dick You will gain nothing by replying "ROFL GG BAk 2 d3 nub" to an offer you perceive as poor. In fact, some people, like me, will ignore you permanently if you're being a cock for no reason, hurting future trading opportunities for yourself in the process. It doesn't make you look like a badass, it doesn't hurt people's feelings and we're both going to die one day, regardless. B. Values are relative A barter economy means, among other things, that items are worth what people want to pay for them. There are a few exceptions set by vendor recipes, but, for most currencies and certainly gear, it can be up in the air. Saying "lol not worth that much cy@ nublet" won't change that or make the seller suddenly realize that you're a guru of trades and should give you his stuff for whatever Your Luminosity deems appropriate (also, see A). C. Mind the ad "PM offers", most of the time, means 'be so kind as to come up with an approximate offer for my goods so we can negotiate from there'. It hardly ever means 'spam me asking me how much what I'm offering is worth so I can, at a more personal level, yet again inquire you as to what your offer is' (see B). Likewise, "will trade only for chaos" seldom translates as "just offer me whatever". D. Know what you want "ISO good witch gear" is ambiguous and inevitably results in a waste of time for both parties. I don't know what stats you're after or how they weigh for you. I don't know your build and I don't care, either. "ISO ammy ele dmg+resists+mana regen" is a much better alternative, improves the chance to find what you want and only takes a few more seconds of your time to type. For currencies, "WTS alchs!" automatically lets you feel the time wasting in your veins (see E). E. Don't be lazy I don't wanna weight your gear for you. "looking for an upgrade to my Sword of Fantasy +15! [links gear]" is fairly common to see. I have enough problems working out the stats on my own character to do yours on top of that. This might work on trade forum where people have more time to browse and peruse, but on my game-time, I wanna kill monsters, not click on your links for your benefit. If you want to break down or upgrade currency, specify what orbs you want. F. Be coherent If you say you're paying very well, pay very well. If you advertise rates for exchange, stick to them. Think before you advertise and don't back out of offers you advertised wasting people's (and your) time in the process. There's a strategic component to doing this, may be argued, but does the marginal gain of scamming an alt or two compensate for all the extra dialogue? Being a cagey, sneaky merchant has nothing to do with not making any sense in hopes of grasping an extra buck. G. Simplify If you have an idea of what you're willing to pay for an item, just offer somewhere in that vicinity. There's no point in replying an ad with "how much" just so the other person can go "offer" and you actually offer what you always knew beforehand. It's a waste of time for you and the other person. Simultaneously, if you're the seller and absolutely won't go below certain value, just name your price when asked. Chances are you're going to get a lowball if you ask for an offer anyway. H. Respect other bidders Asking what the c/o is is poor form. Buyers shouldn't have access to that information if the seller is not doing a public bid through $trade. It's not your choice, it's theirs. Also, when outbidding the current offer, don't go for the typical dick move of c/o + a chrome. It makes it really hard to not click that ignore button. I. Respect $trade Your gameplay questions go in #global, not $trade. In $trade, surprisingly enough, we trade. We don't discuss builds. We don't discuss someone else's appraisal of a given item. Also, try to keep the spam and wall-o'-texting to a minimum. You won't get richer if you link your entire stash every 15 seconds, particularly if they're all sub-level-10 quest rewards. J. Trial and Error There's no way to get good at bartering unless you do it. We all got ripped off at some point and we learned from it. When trading with someone, keep in mind that an extreme lowball might just be a new player learning the ropes. In that position, you don't have to help them, but they usually thank you for it and might even offer you more valuable goods in exchange in the process. At the very least, if you're positive they just don't know what's valuable and what's not (see B) don't be gratuitously harsh in your responses (see A already!), say thanks and walk away. K. Accept defeat Nobody likes a sore loser. If you couldn't get what you wanted at the price you wanted, insulting (A, anyone?) or complaining in $trade about your woes (see I) won't change that. You don't have the Sword of Fantasy +12. Too bad. Maybe next time you can approach with a better offer. Say 'thank you' like your mommy surely taught you and move on to greener pastures. L. Don't be a dick Please. Please have this thread STICKIED.	Posted by Zalioth on Jan 28, 2013, 5:47:52 AM Quote this Post
" dndallasta wrote: " innervation wrote: Agree 100% Perhaps you could add a comprehensive list of what mats are worth at the vendors as a baseline. I think that would add value to this post and perhaps help it get stickied. I would but I won't for a couple of reasons. I think it's better to keep this purely about etiquette so maybe people, particularly new players, can actually get something from this on how to sell and buy stuff in a bit more fluent manner. Economic debate is inevitably going to end up in people saying this and that about alchs:chaos ratios and might detract from that. As for the recipes for vendors and other such game mechanics, there's plenty of resources that already list those so it only takes a Google search (doeet!). As for what goods they carry, just play the game and eventually you'll find out, so what would be the point? Thanks for the support. No, thank YOU for bartering like a sir. I'm just saying that I think your thread is more likely to be stickied if it's more comprehensive. Both breadth by adding more about etiquette, and depth, by considering some simple baseline npc values, and perhaps some discussion of more end-game type trading with maps, chisels, crafting godly yellows, and 20% skill gems, etc.	Posted by innervation on Jan 28, 2013, 6:02:55 AM Quote this Post
This is a wonderful thread!! One of the reasons i have yet to even try to trade in this game is because of being treated so bad in other games when it came to trading. I also have no clue what items are worth. It is nice when the buyer knows what he is willing to pay and the seller knows what he wants for it. there might be a talk of price there might not be. that will depend. What makes it even better is to be nice to one another. It will never be a guaranteed buy or sell. no need to be sad/curse them out if you do not get what you want this time around. just wait a bit and someone will have what you want or will buy your item for the price you had in mind. being mean also lowers your chance to buy something from that person again. If someone is rude enough i will write the name down so i remember not to deal with them again. respected good buyers/sellers will be known.. as well as the worst. do not be one of the worst :) thank you for this thread. Voice work? I do it. --->https://sites.google.com/site/jezdamayel/ Last edited by jezdamayel on Jan 28, 2013, 6:24:33 AM	Posted by jezdamayel on Jan 28, 2013, 6:23:03 AM Quote this Post
I actually feel differently about this matter, although I do try to be very polite during bartering. If someone posts WTS, he WANTS to sell his item. I MIGHT want to buy it. It is his obligation as a seller to state a starting price (as it's customary in any auction or bartering). If I was to say WTB, and the same person let's me know he has the item available for sale, then it is my obligation to state how much I'm willing to offer, as I'm the one who first express the need for something. So far I've found a lot of people announcing WTS, and then not stating their starting price, just so they have an upper hand in the exchange. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but when I have Trade chat open, I'm not looking for anything special, so if someone puts WTS something, I don't want to waste time bartering for something that is not so critical for me to have. I want to know his starting price so I can make an instant decision whether I should buy that or not. But if I say WTB, then I do expect that I will have to make the first offer. „I don't give a fuck if it was his tenth anniversary with his goddamn neckbeard...“ „If they think I'm going to let them sweep this pizza guy thing under the rug...“ No mod action. Business as usual.	Posted by Odoakar on Jan 28, 2013, 7:23:03 AM Quote this Post
That makes tons of sense but it's not the meaty part. I would like to relate that idea to getting used to advertising your initial offer/price as buyer/seller just to filter some needless spam, bad deals, offended people and whatnot. Sometimes, obviously, this can't be done unless you see what you're buying first (i.e., a rare). Here's another scenario which I found fairly common that just makes me want to kill bunnies. dude a: wts/wtb dude b: how much dude a: offer dude b: idk what are u looking for dude a: idk wht u got dude b: idk You can see the pattern. If both parties are lucky, they might actually start debating possibilities of settling in a currency for the transaction. Regardless of who said what first (or who should) and how much the other person failed in their intention of advertising their item, pricing it close to what you think it's right or whatever, there's a lot of fluff that can be trimmed if everyone would just acknowledge the fact that they are, to some degree, interested in that specific item/deal and could be pro-active about it when interacting with the other person, while still keeping polite. We can spend all day discussing whose 'duty' is what, but first, let's settle on doing it like actual human beings.	Posted by dndallasta on Jan 28, 2013, 10:40:39 AM Quote this Post
Back to the front page.	Posted by dndallasta on Jan 28, 2013, 11:06:32 AM Quote this Post
Last bump. I guess people aren't that interested in being nice to each other :P	Posted by dndallasta on Jan 28, 2013, 11:51:14 AM Quote this Post
This is some great piece of advice! I really wish people behaved more like they were trading face to face, rather than just on the virtual marketplace. I hate when I make my offer, seller acknowledges, and I never hear from him again - my currency is essentialy frozen for a while. As OP stated it best - don't be a dick. IGN: Neonesis / Violetlight / Sirencurse /... I have too many alts... I like to hang out in Global sometimes.	Posted by neonesis on Jan 28, 2013, 11:58:37 AM Quote this Post