2h still sucks

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VictorDoom wrote:

Theres a reason i use Bm and LGoH

Oh I know (said it above).
But one cannot complain about damage when one doesn't go for damage in the first place.
Do you really need 7000 Life and Life gain on hit?
I can facetank most stuff too. I dodge Vaal Slam and such, but the rest is not an issue.

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Its not only shield defenses and block that you lose as 2h melee, crit is hard to get, unless your using staffs, defenses in general like life is hard to get, and most of all, you are not ranged.

"Crit is hard to get"
You won't get 95% crit chance, but you can go for 40-50%, which is largely superior to RT. The 3 crit nodes next to templar and the 40% accuracy in marauder will already outDpS RT, if geared properly. To get serious crit, you have to travel in the skilltree (you can see the ridiculous journey I'm taking in mine), but I think it's still worth it.

"Life is hard to get"
???...says the guy with 7k life without Kaom's. ;)

"Ranged vs melee"
That's true, but that's almost impossible to solve in a game where ranged and melee share the same skilltree, defenses, gems etc.

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Also, not sure how youre sustaining that cyclone on mana, considering it consumes roughly 400 mana per second, when you have 30 regen and since mana leech is capped at 12.5% of your mana pool you have 68 regen from leech... youre missing 300 mana regen.. but i might be missing something

My Cyclone costs 73-146 mana per second, not 400. I have NEVER activated that skill so many times, don't think this is even possible.

Currently costs 73 mana (it has 32% reduced mana cost, 17% tree, 15% Conc Effect).
I have enough free mana to spin two times, which lets mana leech and regen set in.
this provides endless spinning if needed (usually not needed, almost everything, even map bosses, dies in 2-3 spins).
In rare cases of "oops I fucked up", I can Leap Slam to refill my pool immediatly.

I have similar cycloner and it semi-works

What sucks is '2h melee is viable if you play crit cyclone'.

It isnt. One build using one setup does not make 2h melee viable. With sword like this you 'rarely die'

With bow with a similar rolls youd never die and facerol pretty much everything..

And ranged and melee can be balanced. Remove offscreening. Tune down close range boss abilities (new brutus fight is quite fair for melee and ranged). And.. cut sustain from ranged attacks: leech, lgoh, mana leech

Melee is 'hard' because ranged is trivial. Make it less trivial.

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Peterlerock wrote:

"

VictorDoom wrote:

Theres a reason i use Bm and LGoH

Oh I know (said it above).
But one cannot complain about damage when one doesn't go for damage in the first place.
Do you really need 7000 Life and Life gain on hit?
I can facetank most stuff too. I dodge Vaal Slam and such, but the rest is not an issue.

"

Its not only shield defenses and block that you lose as 2h melee, crit is hard to get, unless your using staffs, defenses in general like life is hard to get, and most of all, you are not ranged.

Crit - won't get 95% crit chance, but you can go for 40-50%, which is largely superior to RT.
Life - ??? Says the guy with 7k life without Kaom's. ;)
Ranged vs melee - that's true, but that's impossible to solve in a game where ranged and melee share the same skilltree.

"

Also, not sure how youre sustaining that cyclone on mana, considering it consumes roughly 400 mana per second, when you have 30 regen and since mana leech is capped at 12.5% of your mana pool you have 68 regen from leech... youre missing 300 mana regen.. but i might be missing something

My Cyclone costs 73-146 mana per second, not 400. I have NEVER activated that skill so many times, don't think this is even possible.

Currently costs 73 mana (it has 32% reduced mana cost, 17% tree, 15% Conc Effect).
I have enough free mana to spin two times, which lets mana leech and regen set in.
this provides endless spinning if needed (usually not needed, almost everything, even map bosses, dies in 2-3 spins).
In rare cases of "oops I fucked up", I can Leap Slam to refill my pool immediatly.

Well the thing is i really like being able to stand there and just facetank when playing a 2h char, it just seems fitting that a dude with a big weapon should be able to just take huge damage, which is why i use lgoh and get so much life, i much prefer being tanky than having high dps because focusing on dps will make you end up in some situations where you will die because the lack of regen, leech or just hp. i prefer to not die in any situation.

Well 40-50% you can only get with swords if you focus on crit a lot, or staves easily, but you cant get anymore decent crit than that, especially when using maces or axes you barely reach 30% with a pretty substantial investment like with swords, getting 40-50% crit means you sacrifice life and you have to travel all the way to the shadow area.

Well there are no reduced mana passives on tree, at all, so the cost with that tree would be at like 100something, with 3.8 atttacks per second you're at roughly 400 mana per second when youre attackiing something constantly(forgot to add the 15% from conc effect when i calced that, so youre acutally at like 350 or some shit, still way too high)

Yeah, then you basically spin to one side then to the other of the screen when youre attacking because of the mana issues you cant really single target anything... that really sucks, since you also have no control over the char while youre spinning, seems like a way too dangerous playstyle for my taste at least

Anyway, as sidhetreat said cyclone is really the only way to properly play 2h melee, any other skill is just simply inferior, by a longshot, and of course, sustaining cyclone is hard, getting crit is hard, getting defenses is hard as a 2h melee.. It simply is inferior compared to any other type of character

People seem to be willingly forgetful of the fact that 6 > 3+3 in PoE.

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sidtherat wrote:

Melee is 'hard' because ranged is trivial. Make it less trivial.

I'd support that, too.

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VictorDoom wrote:

Well the thing is i really like being able to stand there and just facetank when playing a 2h char, it just seems fitting that a dude with a big weapon should be able to just take huge damage, which is why i use lgoh and get so much life, i much prefer being tanky than having high dps because focusing on dps will make you end up in some situations where you will die because the lack of regen, leech or just hp. i prefer to not die in any situation.

Yes, again, it's obvious why you are doing it.
But that doesn't make it a good choice.
Everything in PoE comes at a cost. Take one gem, lose another. You opted for a crazy lifepool and sustain (that I both don't need in my maps), I opted for a more offensive approach.
As long as I manage to survive, I won. If not, you won. ;)

"

Well there are no reduced mana passives on tree, at all, so the cost with that tree would be at like 100something, with 3.8 atttacks per second you're at roughly 400 mana per second when youre attackiing something constantly(forgot to add the 15% from conc effect when i calced that, so youre acutally at like 350 or some shit, still way too high)

1. I have 10% reduced mana in Marauder area, 7% left of amplify. Did I link the wrong skilltree?
2. I don't think you know how cyclone mana cost works. I activate it, pay 73 mana, then launch a series of attacks that usually lasts at least 1 second. Then i pay 73 mana again and launch another attack series.
Even if I try, I cannot initiate 3.8 Cyclones in one second. That's just not possible. Cyclone lasts too long. The 3.8 number has something to do with the number of times monsters get hit, but isn't involved in the "sustain mana" stuff.

You think I'm cheating and usually using BM instead of Melee physical Damage? ;)

Even if you don't get it, it works.
There's this saying in germany:
"According to the laws of physics, Bumblebee's can't fly. They do none the less."
Same here. ;)

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Peterlerock wrote:

"Ranged vs melee"
That's true, but that's almost impossible to solve in a game where ranged and melee share the same skilltree, defenses, gems etc.

Its a simple matter to improve 2 handed nodes with damage and/or life. Melee gems can also be buffed. Its far from impossible.

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iamstryker wrote:

Its a simple matter to improve 2 handed nodes with damage and/or life. Melee gems can also be buffed. Its far from impossible.

I don't think this would do the trick.

Ranged's advantage is not damage. It's "I don't even have to come close".

Im leveling new char and at lvl 55 with 1700hp an rubbish gear i have absolutelly no issues cleaning everything. Im pretty sure i can do lvl66 maps and if carefull go to lvl 70 maps too.

Ranged is simply trivial.

Try the same with melee

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Peterlerock wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

Its a simple matter to improve 2 handed nodes with damage and/or life. Melee gems can also be buffed. Its far from impossible.

I don't think this would do the trick.

Ranged's advantage is not damage. It's "I don't even have to come close".

Along with adding life to passives they could also put block on two handers or add block nodes to the tree for 2 handers (aside from the staff ones currently on there.)

I agree that defense should be the priority but I would take anything right about now. As the other guy said cyclone also shouldn't be the only decent way to play melee. Why is it no one wants to use heavy strike?

Heavy strike == annoying knockback

This is THE reason to avoid this. Another is weapon restriction.