2h still sucks

I killed all map bosses solo for the achievement with a 2h marauder. There are stronger builds around but it does not suck.

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Fruz wrote:

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Crackmonster wrote:

You are allowed to use your brain.

Below 100 you naturally remove damage points, here for example could be the level 87 version:

Spoiler

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgABAecEBwx9DjwOSBB_ES8RlhcvGdcc3B0UHaofAiSwJwsotSo4LKYtHy2oL28yCTJ-NAo2xTboN2Y6UjvhQqNGcUcGSshMs1AwVgRYr1pSXIpfKl9qYIhhUmNDbEZtGW6qcFJwVnC7cmx2CHgNe9d_xoCkgwmGYIbRiEKIa49Gj_qQG5DWkyeZmpoTm12fy6KjpwinK6c0qJqpbrGQtAy18rb3t9a4k8BRwcXB88Lsw23Gntgk2RPbWdte29ThiOL344TrY-vk7Bjyl_Lh8-r60g==

But hey, i guess some are not too smart. Did you ever think your argument becomes any more convincing resorting to such a useless attack on me? It changes nothing because the core build is all that was essential.

Also, you clearly can't do the math on ES bro.

You want to do the maths ?
No problems :
I'm gonna put a spoiler on all the maths since not everyone will be interested in that

Spoiler

You have 86%inx ES from the tree ( considering 0 from amulet of course, this will be simpler ).
Let's assume 400 int ( 80 more than the tree ), that makes 80%inc ES
That leads us to a 166% inc ES.
You have ( with Inner Force 85%inc auras on you ), that makes ~588ES from Discipline (lvl20)

Let's aim for the minimum ES pool to be able to map correctly ( let's assume maps <75 ) : 6000.
with 188%inc ES, you will need 2250 flat ES
Let's take a 450 Shavronne's wrapping and the discipline aura :
2250 - 450 - 588 : 1212
That's the ES value that you need from boots/gloves/helmet/shield/jewellery.
Unless with a ver very ( not to say godlike ) shield, you won't reach that.
If we take a 600 ES shield ( needs at least 2 top tiers ES roll, at the very least = that starts being a godly shield ), you still need more than 600 ES from the 3 other pieces which means very good items in terms of ES.

Now, is a build with godly items gonna choose to limits its ES at 6k ( people do that when they are limited by .... their gear obviously ) when he could just be doing higher level maps and remove threats with some really obvious nodes on the tree that would make it reach easily 8~9k and probably save a lot of time because of potential deaths ??
So yes, I used 4k as critical value because you're tree is a troll tree ( I also forgot discipline, that does no change this fact though ).

See ? I can safely say ( just by looking at it very quickly actually ) that no high level ES player would take such a tree for obvious clusters missing : this is a troll tree.
You took is as a personnel attack ? That's funny because I was just talking about what you said, not about you ( where you actually do the opposite, hmm ..... ).

I dont even want to waste time with your numbers, i haven't even looked at them when writing the calculation, but let me show you how the real calculation looks:

(295+345+495+88+180+653+48) * (1+0.96+0.68+0.03+0.2) = 6038

295 = ES from Crown of Eyes
345 = ES from Gloves
495 = ES from Shavronnes
88 = ES from Auxium
180 = ES from Boots
653 = ES from Discipline + 70% Aura Effects + Inner Force
48 = ES Prism Guardian

1 = base ES multiplier
0.96 = 96% increased ES from build
0.68 = 68% increased ES from build intelligence
0.03 = 3% increased energy shield from intelligence on Onyx Amulet
0.2 = 20% increased ES from amulet

So you see, this build is crafted for pushing limits and maximizing. It leaves a bit of space still for legacy shavronnes and prefect rolls on items. Now i read your "math". You assume things like trying a 600 ES shield and still claiming it to be impossible. I would have taken the 3 nodes that would cause that shield to be 600*1.9=1140 ES if i wanted to overstack ES, but i deliberate use prism guardian for auras leaving me with just 48 ES on the shield, because i calculated it to be possible.

Realistically you would be looking at somewhere near 5.5k ES, the last 500 are gonna cost atronomical amounts to acquire, like a couple hundred exalts, boots + gloves that is. This is the final build, i have a couple of other builds that are for earlier stages in gear progression, earliest version uses more aura points, goes for a mega ES shield and CI instead of lowlife, but this final version is one of the most damaging/fast clearing builds i can think of in the game, it is made for spectral dagger throw with 3 damage auras.

Anyway, such a build is nonetheless niche, and uses most of its points to stack auras, it is only natural to have advantages out of it. Of course, it won't fit 2H style the most since other builds will just do a better job with 2H, that doesn't mean that 2H is underpowered, as other mentioned.

2-handers at the moment is probably one of the cheaper builds (IMO). Could get very descent DPS with 2-handers with the right gear.

Here is an example (Currently using this)



But I totally agree on some points. 2-handers are a lot more squishy ( firstly ) and you do lose 6 stat rolls from not having a sheild or secondary weapon. But on the other hand , 2 handers are totally viable. Like almost any other build this game has to offer.

spectral throw is not melee

2h melee is in a really bad place

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Fruz wrote:

getting off topic build discussion

Didn't even know some dagger node would provide ES now, missed 10%.
You probably made a mistake about discipline, by ~50 or so from what I got.
Now, you are talking about a build that has a top rolled Shavronnes + a mini 50exa pair of gloves ? Seriously, people that invest that much in a build are doing lvl 75+ maps usually, and that means that they don't stop at 6k ES, especially since you're right next to the very good templar's ES cluster.
That's basically why I see it as a troll build.
I didn't claim it to be impossible, just ridiculous for the reasons I just mentioned.

Anyway, such a build is nonetheless niche, and uses most of its points to stack auras, it is only natural to have advantages out of it. Of course, it won't fit 2H style the most since other builds will just do a better job with 2H, that doesn't mean that 2H is underpowered, as other mentioned.

You wanted me to link a build and i did, as i said it can be done with a blood magic attack, a life user, aura points and 3 60% auras on mana rather cheaply, probably with zero gear cost if you wanted.

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2h still have lower offence and defence than 1h

2h should have better offence than 1h

Indeed
Its the worst style in every aspect of attack and defence

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2h still have lower offence and defence than 1h

2h should have better offence than 1h

Stop comparing every weapon to a Dagger.
Daggers are so obviously overpowered, they can't be used for a comparision.
Daggers should receive quite some nerf, yes.
And twohanders should probably receive a slight buff, yes.

If affixes have about the same quality, a 2h maul does 500 DpS, a onehanded maul does 300.
Don't tell me you can't build into more damage on this 2h mace.

I'm currently getting pretty close to 60k Cyclone DpS on a 530 DpS 2h sword.
I don't know if I would ever get there with one or two 1h swords with 300-320 DpS.

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Sa_Re wrote:

I killed all map bosses solo for the achievement with a 2h marauder. There are stronger builds around but it does not suck.

Was it a permastun build? Or you just did white maps.