PoE vs Grim Dawn

+1
Crafting doesn't exist in POE. Gambling does...and the house always wins.

Velocireptile - I LOL'ed. Which made me fart. I wish the office were empty right now :(

Hardlicker - I had to push the dog out of the way so I could get to the sexy quilt.
Hey everyone.

Lucky enough that my computer saved my password otherwise I'd have to create another account.

Anyways, though I haven't played much of PoE (Note avatar lol - this isn't my game though I did try it) I have logged over 400 hours into Grim Dawn.

So I'll just answer a few of the questions/comments that are being discussed in this thread, though I'm just a fan of the game and thus do not have information for everything.

On to the questions/comments:

Spoiler
"am I right that this game has steam punk elements?"
No it isn't steam punk. It's more like Victorian era in that their is the transition of medieval weaponry going into gun powder ranged weapons (there are guns/crossbows). So there are still melee weapons like swords, axes, knives, and a lot of other items that aren't yet in the game. Also there is magic as well both before the Grim Dawn (apocalypse) and after when the Aetherials (undead/mutant creature things) introduced Aetherial energy to the world of Cairn which warps living things resulting in mutated creatures and your character adapting to this odd power. There is lore that better explains it in game.

"Refined loot system drops less junk items and ensures more consistent rewards from hero and boss monsters."
The first 10 or so levels you will find white and yellow items so it may seem a bit slow. But eventually rare/green and epic/blue items will start to drop which can make the item hunt a lot more enjoyable especially since they can have interesting skills (active, passive, proc on hit, proc when struck, etc...). Rare/yellow items can still be good in that they can have a high maximum roll and thus the itemization in Grim Dawn is a bit more competitive so the only trashy items left on the ground would be white items (or if you are feeling OP, yellow as well).

Also Relics, Legendary items and the crafting system aren't in the game so far (though there is partial crafting when it comes to item components - used to enhance items with more stats and can also give skills).

Plus there is a thing called Monster Infrequents where a particular enemy will drop a specific item. One example is a Chthonic Cultist Leader named Salazar who has a chance to drop his own weapon with unique stats and the ability to summon a Harbinger. This item can also receive more affixes if you are lucky (mine had 4% life and 22% attack speed, the AS is quite good).

"combat isn't quite as fluid and building characters isn't quite as free in choice."
Combat is better then Titan Quest. It really depends on what skill build you are using and also the gear since there is movement speed, attack speed, and casting speed which can make the fighting faster. Again early levels it may seem to be slow. One character I have in Act 2 is quite enjoyable when it comes to dual wielding a weapon that can proc an ability that gives hp regen and % armor absorption for a few seconds while the second weapon has a proc on attack to have a lightning bolt shoot down dealing some nice AoE lightning damage with a stun. Combine that with dual wielding skills, shadow strike, and pneumatic burst for attack speed and my character pretty much dances group to group while becoming a swirling vortex of fire and lightning (fire with other skills.


Sorry for the lengthy paragraphs but I want this to be a bit more organized and not too spaced out when it comes to answering the different quotes.

I'll continue on with part 2.
Last edited by DeMasked on February 13, 2014 10:05 AM
Spoiler
"ok lets say uniques for instance, will the equivalent of BoRs and shavs for grim dawn drop just slightly better in grim dawn than in poe?
or do you need crazy amount of iir/iiq jsut to get decent rares like in poe?"


I haven't played much of PoE so I can't say that I'm familiar with the drop rates for this game. Also since this isn't a complete game it's kinda hard to tell about the drop rates for those (what I assume to be) awesome items. However so far the drops are quite good imo. Monster Infrequents can be a bit hard to get though and may take a bit of farming to get the item. And then perhaps even more farming for that item to get some particular affixes.

So drop rates I feel are generous in some ways, yet some items are still difficult to obtain. Also there are a few one shot chests which drop more generous loot in which case they will be gone the next time you go through the same area (kinda like Titan Quest where the first time looting the chest the quality will be really good, repeat the chest and it's quality drops). I probably have all epic/blue items but still find some interesting rare/green items with skill abilities or affixes that amaze me and thus encourages me to continue farming. Also you can trade with other people even now without multiplayer and there is no gold find or magic find which is good or bad depending if you like it or not.

End game on the highest difficulty (3 in total I believe) is another thing so it's really hard to say - plus itemization isn't fully complete as Crafting, Legendary items, 2 handed melee weapons, other unique weapons (perhaps -- seen in some community data base files) and so on need to be added. Act 2 is the priority right now and is really close to completion in which case crafting will be added sometime after followed hopefully by multiplayer and then either Act 3 or the Arcanist (final mastery) - complete guess besides crafting.

"I'd compare it to D3 for consoles, just with a better and more diverse skill system and itemization. I wouldn't compare it to PoE, though."
Honestly I wouldn't compare anything to Diablo 3. And that isn't me being a Grim Dawn player, but just a disappointed CE owner of D3. The loot system can be generous yes, but not like Diablo 3's loot 2.0. I wouldn't compare PoE to Grim Dawn either. Some features can be comparable but there are still vast differences between each game.

"Sounds like the revamped D3 loot system.
If loot is too easy to get you won't be playing for very long."

The loot system isn't too easy like D3 console' version. But it isn't too shallow like D3's vanilla where the legendary items were terrible and the drop rates were also terrible. You'd either have to play GD for yourself or read a thread that discusses drop rates and different items found in the game. Or simply create a thread via steam or the GD forums and look for answers there.

"Just remember, the faster you climb the item spiral, the faster you'll get bored of the game. This is certainly true for D3 on consoles, but it might not be a problem with Grim Dawn because there's actually build diversity in that game..."
Again the loot system is generous in some ways yet difficult in others. To me it feels quite right but that is just my opinion. Once Act 2 is released later this month I'm sure there will be a lot more opinions to check out. Otherwise for build diversity my 30+ (maybe even 40+) characters can definitely attest to that where D3 you just need 5 characters or 10 with HC (soon to be 6 and 12). I'll admit that at the time the whole idea of having access to all skills and switching them in and out sounded good - wish I could go back in time and slap that version of me lol.


Part 3 coming up...
Last edited by DeMasked on February 13, 2014 10:03 AM
Spoiler
"Go ahead and fall for this marketing spiel bs
The yield curve will shift to the right and then you'll QQ that your gear is crap again.
Oh, then you'll go to modDB and download a mod that makes the game drop only rares.
Then the next day you'll uninstall Grim Dawn.
...
VS POE: you'll still be playing POE two years later despite all your craploot QQ"


Sure you can cheat in Grim Dawn. You can even pirate the game for free as well though that merely restricts the devs in creating future content and there may be issues with bugs and such. Currently there is no "yield curve" because there isn't any 3rd difficulty or the whole "end game" where you are farming for upgrades. So I'll reserve my opinion on the final loot system and how it scales with difficulty, acts, and leveling when the actual game is full complete and released.

Otherwise you can play legit, with mods to enhance the game (Soul Vizier anyone?) or simply make your character OP. It's completely up to you. PoE you can also most likely buy items from some website and cheat your way to victory. If that's your thing then go for it.

It isn't the game's fault if the player decides to cheat, mod it to their advantage, or buy items (won't happen in GD so no bots/spam chat hopefully). VS PoE? Why the animosity? If you like PoE that's fine, if you like GD that's also good. If you like both games great.

"The idea of having every single monster dropping the items they are wearing which you can recognize and look out for, the monsters are actually using the said items making a boss wielding a legendary weapon something that you do not want to encounter with a hc character."
I fought a boss who had an epic/blue item and rare/green item equipped though I didn't know during the fight. When near death he suddenly healed a bunch of HP which freaked me out and then this odd red AoE burst attack came out of nowhere when I was fighting him. It's these moments that make me appreciate Grim Dawn. Still killed the boss and got both items :)

Another time with my more current character my energy was getting sapped far faster then usual and of course after killing the boss there is an affix on the weapon which steals a % amount of energy per hit.

"I'll also tell you this about Grim Dawn. It is fucking hard.
I'm getting my ass kicked like mad dying all over the place extremely early in the game. Die like nothing and there is seemingly no way to become so fat you are just facerolling.

I was watching some dev on youtube the otherday showcasing the game and he ended up in a whipefest dying like 5 times to the same rare monster, finally killing it to what appears to be his own great satisfaction.
Very hard rofl, i think it will be a good game."


GD can definitely be challenging though since I've played it so much I'm quite used to the mechanics and know gear I'd want to use and so on.

As for the developer who was showcasing parts of Act 2 (with some technical difficulties with the streaming) his character wasn't quite prepared enough for Act 2 since the resistances on the character were quite low.


Anyways, hope that a lot of questions were answered and if you still have any I'll do my best to provide some answers.

Enjoy playing PoE!

:)

Edit: Also I'd like to add that GD has 2 skill bars rather then just one. You can switch to the second by pressing "Y". Just thought I'd add that since my one character has to switch to this - shows that there isn't any restriction like D3 and it's 6 skills.
Last edited by DeMasked on February 13, 2014 10:04 AM
Ey Demasked, where can I read a condensated manifesto about future plans? What to expect from the game in the long term etc.
Be ready. You're not paranoid, you're PREPARED.

I quit this game every few months and so should you to continue playing it in the future.

The device is believed to have been dropped
Thanks for the insight, DeMasked.

The loot system doesn't sound that different from PoE concerning drop rates but the itemization with proc abilities sounds great. Something one will rarely see in PoE, because we have the support skill deal.

Will certainly buy that game once I get the bucks spare.
Sounds damn fun to me if it is indeed that challenging.
Cogito ergo scum.

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One information I still can't exactly pinpoint is what is the "go to plan". What is the finished product supposed to be, how large etc. In PoE closed beta it was the developements manifestos that made me contribute financially because it gave me a clear sign that this product will last me for a long time.
Be ready. You're not paranoid, you're PREPARED.

I quit this game every few months and so should you to continue playing it in the future.

The device is believed to have been dropped
"
One information I still can't exactly pinpoint is what is the "go to plan". What is the finished product supposed to be, how large etc. In PoE closed beta it was the developements manifestos that made me contribute financially because it gave me a clear sign that this product will last me for a long time.


Spoiler
Well the game will have 3 Acts in total in which case the level design is stitched together so you can see how you exactly got to where you are now.

During development both Act 1 and 2 became a lot larger then they were at first going to be. Crate Entertainment also hopes to create several acts (at least 1 guaranteed act) and hopefully have up to 12 mastery's/classes in total when the game is complete. Of course modding will create a lot more content when it comes to different level design or mastery's (like Soul Vizier did for TQ). Some environments planned for expansions would take part in a more Mountainous terrain, desert, and then a larger industrial city. Act 1 Burrwitch Village is supposed to be small yet is actually quite large imo so a larger yet industrial city should be quite interesting.

If you want to know more about the game's features I would check the kickstarter page for Grim Dawn as it will list a lot of the goals/features the game will have. I'll list a few off the top of my head.

1: PVP will be open world. There has been talk from one of the devs in hoping to create some sort of battleground which would support more then the usual amount of players in a game (normally it will be 4-6 I believe). So essentially battlegrounds could be 8-12 perhaps. Yet the battleground is merely a future plan.

2: Survival mode. Not sure how this will be implemented but it's probably just fighting waves of enemies for as long as possible. Could be fun in end game to get the best gear possible to survive for as long as possible.

3: Challenge dungeons. I believe there will be 3 high level challenge dungeons with their own theme and hero monster in the game on release. They can be done in single player though multiplayer it may prove to be easier (though difficulty obviously would scale with more players) though I'm not too sure. There will also be 3 end game bosses to encounter in the game that aren't affiliated with the story (think Titan Quest when it comes to the Hydra, Manticore, Bone Dragon, etc...). Also there will be a dungeon where you can enter the Chthonic void (one of the 2 otherworldly enemies fighting for dominance of Cairn).

4: Factions. Though these aren't fleshed out yet there will be different factions to join up with which will provide you with different quests and perhaps have you fight against other enemy factions.

5: Quest Options. Already in act 1 there is at least 1 quest with different outcomes. Act 2 will expand on this a lot more.

6: Less restriction on where you go. Level design is a lot larger and generally less linear. Act 1 a lot of the areas are wider then they are tall with multiple paths to get from place to place although they tend to bottleneck when entering a new zone - act 1 is also generally a bit more linear in that you are going in one direction - act 2 has more options. Also you can enter act 2 earlier if you wish rather then having to complete all of act 1 first.


Not sure if this answers any of your question though I'll continue to check this page every once in awhile to see if anyone has any questions on the game. Just realize that the team creating the game consists of only 8 people so the development speed is quite slow for now. Hopefully on release they will be able to hire more people (though the steam sales allowed them to hire one more person which is great).
Last edited by DeMasked on February 12, 2014 12:03 AM
Cheers Demasked.
Chopped in for Grim D. aswell.
But..
Please..
Do like this:
Spoiler
"
Well the game will have 3 Acts in total in which case the level design is stitched together so you can see how you exactly got to where you are now.

During development both Act 1 and 2 became a lot larger then they were at first going to be. Crate Entertainment also hopes to create several acts (at least 1 guaranteed act) and hopefully have up to 12 mastery's/classes in total when the game is complete. Of course modding will create a lot more content when it comes to different level design or mastery's (like Soul Vizier did for TQ). Some environments planned for expansions would take part in a more Mountainous terrain, desert, and then a larger industrial city. Act 1 Burrwitch Village is supposed to be small yet is actually quite large imo so a larger yet industrial city should be quite interesting.

If you want to know more about the game's features I would check the kickstarter page for Grim Dawn as it will list a lot of the goals/features the game will have. I'll list a few off the top of my head.

1: PVP will be open world. There has been talk from one of the devs in hoping to create some sort of battleground which would support more then the usual amount of players in a game (normally it will be 4-6 I believe). So essentially battlegrounds could be 8-12 perhaps. Yet the battleground is merely a future plan.

2: Survival mode. Not sure how this will be implemented but it's probably just fighting waves of enemies for as long as possible. Could be fun in end game to get the best gear possible to survive for as long as possible.

3: Challenge dungeons. I believe there will be 3 high level challenge dungeons with their own theme and hero monster in the game on release. They can be done in single player though multiplayer it may prove to be easier (though difficulty obviously would scale with more players) though I'm not too sure. There will also be 3 end game bosses to encounter in the game that aren't affiliated with the story (think Titan Quest when it comes to the Hydra, Manticore, Bone Dragon, etc...). Also there will be a dungeon where you can enter the Chthonic void (one of the 2 otherworldly enemies fighting for dominance of Cairn).

4: Factions. Though these aren't fleshed out yet there will be different factions to join up with which will provide you with different quests and perhaps have you fight against other enemy factions.

5: Quest Options. Already in act 1 there is at least 1 quest with different outcomes. Act 2 will expand on this a lot more.

6: Less restriction on where you go. Level design is a lot larger and generally less linear. Act 1 a lot of the areas are wider then they are tall with multiple paths to get from place to place although they tend to bottleneck when entering a new zone - act 1 is also generally a bit more linear in that you are going in one direction - act 2 has more options. Also you can enter act 2 earlier if you wish rather then having to complete all of act 1 first.


Not sure if this answers any of your question though I'll continue to check this page every once in awhile to see if anyone has any questions on the game. Just realize that the team creating the game consists of only 8 people so the development speed is quite slow for now. Hopefully on release they will be able to hire more people (though the steam sales allowed them to hire one more person which is great).

Avatar
Posted by DeMasked
on 11 februari 2014 20.50
QuotePrivate Message
One information I still can't exactly pinpoint is what is the "go to plan". What is the finished product supposed to be, how large etc. In PoE closed beta it was the developements manifestos that made me contribute financially because it gave me a clear sign that this product will last me for a long time.

I hate to scroll....
Rgds ,
L
**Better to burnout , than to fade away**
Closed Beta Member since September 2011
Last edited by Lazze on February 12, 2014 12:22 AM
Demasked can you help me a bit. There was a fat ugly guy in a small cave, lvl 28 I think. Tried to find him recently, but didn't remember where he was. Show me the direction, I want him dead :) Txs.

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