Legacies and why they are the best items to invest in the long run.

"

Peterlerock wrote:

Just out of curiosity...

Has GGG ever stated why they allow people to keep the old, broken version of items that were fixed? In any game I played so far, once a bug got removed, everybody had to play the new game.

Here people can keep these super-rare overpowered items and make a fortune with them.

I just don't get this decision.

I know people invested large amounts of time and/or currency into there 1000life kaoms and higher dps soultakers, but I wouldn't count that as an argument. You're not spending real money, so no real damage would be done by patching them as well.

To me it looks absurd having a system like this. It's like playing Battlefield with a gun that (because of a bug) does double damage. It gets patched, but closed beta players get to keep the double damage weapon. Would love to see player reactions on this...

(if they were ever going to nerf existing legacy uniques, OPs investment strategy would be kinda nullified) ;-)

It essentially boils down to one point;

It's standard league.
Standard, no matter how some might defend it, is the 'legacy' league for all the others. A lot call it the 'dumpster' league

I.e. when Domination ends, all Dom players characters will be sent to Standard.

GGG Promotes the fresh leagues and races over standard. You don't get anything by playing in standard either, as far as game rewards, achievements, etc go.

So to be perfectly honest, it doesn't matter if there are these items in standard.
It's not the focus play-area of the game. The four-month leagues are and races. Standard is just where everyone goes after those cycle, and some stay there because they get attached to their characters.

There are no 'legacy' items in Domination/Nemesis for example. They do not exist.

After Domination/Nemesis end on the 23rd? 29th? This month at any rate, the new ones will begin on the 5th or March so I heard.

That all said, Standard has other problems too;

Players have peaked and things like 'best in game' item exist, and are mirrored etc. This creates a problem where if you care about this stuff, the best items already exist, and obtaining them is farming for years to get them mirrored etc.

TLDR: Don't play standard, unless you are solo/self found, and only group with RL mates/other solo self found types.

"

linkstatic wrote:

Except that it wasn't a bug that caused it. It was intended all along.

Yeah, but they regretted their design decisions and remade the items. I know it's not a bugfix, but it still is a "fix".

But they still allow the broken items in the game.

Why?

It doesnt matter so much to me, I haven't played standard so far. I just don't get the motivation for such a decision. If it's broken, fix it.
Not "if it's broken, fix it for some, but let the rest keep op stuff".

"

gr00grams wrote:

So to be perfectly honest, it doesn't matter if there are these items in standard.
It's not the focus play-area of the game.

If Standard league really doesn't matter then why do people care if GGG fixes all of the uniques that they deem to be imbalanced?

Apparently a lot of people do play Standard as the "real" game and would appreciate having all of the same balances done there as well.

"

gr00grams wrote:

Players have peaked and things like 'best in game' item exist, and are mirrored etc. This creates a problem where if you care about this stuff, the best items already exist, and obtaining them is farming for years to get them mirrored etc.

TLDR: Don't play standard, unless you are solo/self found, and only group with RL mates/other solo self found types.

To have a "perfect" item available for mirror service... How is that a bad thing?

Your TLDR comment is also just your opinion, nothing else.

"

tinko92 wrote:

"

gr00grams wrote:

Players have peaked and things like 'best in game' item exist, and are mirrored etc. This creates a problem where if you care about this stuff, the best items already exist, and obtaining them is farming for years to get them mirrored etc.

TLDR: Don't play standard, unless you are solo/self found, and only group with RL mates/other solo self found types.

To have a "perfect" item available for mirror service... How is that a bad thing?

Your TLDR comment is also just your opinion, nothing else.

It's a bad thing because it should not exist.

Here's the reason(s);

1. This game, like all ARPG's is about finding loot from killin' monsters. This is irrelevant when things like mirrors exist.

Your best option in reality, is to farm a high-yield boss like Dominus and convert all items to currency to buy a mirrored item, because it's the best you can do. You cannot exceed this. Think about that. Really think about it.

Everything you do is irrelevant to this, because you cannot find a better item. There is no point in farming for drops, unless to convert them to more currency to further reach a mirrored item.

Mirrors are not a bad thing by default, but the permanence of Standard makes them flawed.
Mirrors existing in a temporary league is fine, but come another year or so of this game in Standard, and there will be absolutely zero reason to hunt items yourself, and it will all be a grind for currency. You have more hope of flying to the moon with your arms than creating an equal item, much less finding one.

How long once this plateau is reached do you think people will continue? There is absolutely zero item hunt, nothing but currency grind to buy the best items in the game via mirror.

Look at 'duping' in other ARPG's. See how duping ruined the economies, and desire to play in every single one of them. It trivializes everything the game is about. Absolutely everything.

"

iamstryker wrote:

If Standard league really doesn't matter then why do people care if GGG fixes all of the uniques that they deem to be imbalanced?

Apparently a lot of people do play Standard as the "real" game and would appreciate having all of the same balances done there as well.

I did not say Standard doesn't matter.

More I said; It is what it is.
It IS the legacy league. It is what it is.

You see, there are also hordes of players in Standard that like their OP legacy items too. They also like the presumed wealth this gives them.

Standard cannot be balanced in the end, because of it's permanence.
I would bet a paycheck this is why temporary leagues exist. Truly.

You have perfect mirrored items. A lot of them.

Give it a year or two more, and this will be even more true. Every possible item you could get will be inferior to items that are already available if only you endlessly grind currency to afford a mirror fee.

Those defeat the entire worth of playing the game right there, and they are not at all out of balance other than they exist. Most people play ARPG's to get the best items correct? Well, in Standard that means farm for currency endlessly to have mirrored items. Does that sound like how an ARPG should be?

EDIT*

For note, after this season, I too will most likely reside permanently in Standard. This is not a hate on Standard. It is what it is. I simply do not trade at all, never have the channel on, etc. I will be making my home there only because I don't wish to start all over, but the rest of the player base there doesn't really exist to me, so it will be a non-issue. If I interacted with the general populous, then yes these problems are beyond severe.

You cannot have a game about getting items and at the same time have 'perfect' items available for mass-reproduction. It defeats the point of the game entirely. I don't know how to stress that any further, but it's the most important issue bar none. You cannot have replicas of the best. It's absolutely absurd. Beyond words.

"

Has GGG ever stated why they allow people to keep the old, broken version of items that were fixed? In any game I played so far, once a bug got removed, everybody had to play the new game.

Yes, they have stated why. There is technical limitations stopping them from easily changing all legacy items to their new stats. It would take a long downtime of unknown length(potentially 6+ hours).

It would also take a lot of manual work.

That's the only thing differing legacy items from changed passives/skills..etc.

grooGrams, all you said is true, until the next tier of higher item levels and mods are released.

"

gr00grams wrote:

Spoiler

It's a bad thing because it should not exist.

Here's the reason(s);

1. This game, like all ARPG's is about finding loot from killin' monsters. This is irrelevant when things like mirrors exist.

Your best option in reality, is to farm a high-yield boss like Dominus and convert all items to currency to buy a mirrored item, because it's the best you can do. You cannot exceed this. Think about that. Really think about it.

Everything you do is irrelevant to this, because you cannot find a better item. There is no point in farming for drops, unless to convert them to more currency to further reach a mirrored item.

Mirrors are not a bad thing by default, but the permanence of Standard makes them flawed.
Mirrors existing in a temporary league is fine, but come another year or so of this game in Standard, and there will be absolutely zero reason to hunt items yourself, and it will all be a grind for currency. You have more hope of flying to the moon with your arms than creating an equal item, much less finding one.

How long once this plateau is reached do you think people will continue? There is absolutely zero item hunt, nothing but currency grind to buy the best items in the game via mirror.

Look at 'duping' in other ARPG's. See how duping ruined the economies, and desire to play in every single one of them. It trivializes everything the game is about. Absolutely everything.

So now mirrors prevent you from killing monsters? Or somehow diminish your joy? If so, that's again, just your opinion.

Since you like to pickle, those items on mirror service aren't perfect, you can do better.
Not to mention that a player has 9 (10) gear slots, so if you really do get mirrored/mirrorable items in each... it's really either time to start a new character or play something else, or, it's maybe a time to start killing monsters if you've done that by flipping or [cough].

Do you know what are the chances of dropping a perfect rare item? Is that really your goal in this game, or anyone's goal? If so, you'll be extremely disappointed, as you should be.

And yeah, even if you have all gear slots mirrored, you can still do better for each.

That's right, if you hunt the absolute godly items don't hope for them to drop, that's why people make them.
Best you can hope is to drop a godly but not mirrorable item, maybe with 4-5 mods all great and all top tier, etc.

So, how long? Pretty fucking long, at least for those who don't [cough].
By that time, who knows what can happen, new permanent league to replace this, etc.

But in the end, there's no gear in this game that can make you trivialize any content, that's the beauty of this game.

"

gr00grams wrote:

You cannot have a game about getting items and at the same time have 'perfect' items available for mass-reproduction. It defeats the point of the game entirely. I don't know how to stress that any further, but it's the most important issue bar none. You cannot have replicas of the best. It's absolutely absurd. Beyond words.

I'm not going to defend mirrors as an item but I don't really see it that way. You make it sound so easy to get a mirror and then the item to copy. I don't know about you but I have never seen a mirror drop and buying one would take forever. I have more important goals than to struggle so hard to get one perfect item on ONE character. Also, rares are eventaully supposed to be BiS, uniques aren't which is why they were rebalanced. OP legacy uniques are a big contradiction to the games design.

I feel like spamming a bunch of legacy items in da thread but that's kinda not creative.