Iron Reflexes + Leather and Steel

There is no "both"
Leather and steel applies one, and only one, modifier.
The value of the modifier is a 24% increase.
The modifier applies to evasion rating and armour.

It is not a 24% increase to evasion rating, and a separate 24% increase to armour.

It's "24% increased Evastion Rating and Armour". One bonus, with two things it can apply to.
Just like "10% increased elemental damage" applies to cold dmage, fire damage and lightning damage.

There is never any situation in the game where one bonus can be applied twice to the same value. When you convert cold damage to fire damage using the support, the elemental damage bonuses don't apply twice. The damage either is or isn't elemental.

If you have evasion, you total all increases to evasion rating. Leather and steel applies, because it affects evasion rating.
If you have armour, you total all increases to armour. Leather and steel applies, because it affects armour.
If you have evasion converted to armour, you total all increases which apply to either of those things. Leather and steel applies, so is included. It does not "apply twice", it's one bonus, and it's either applied or isn't.

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Keyen wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

There is never any situation in the game where one bonus can be applied twice to the same value.

Hum, fire penetration is not applied twice, to the fire damage and right after, to the ignite damage?

1) No, damage over time can't benefit from penetration. There's no way for that to work. Penetration is 'at the time this hit applies, I pretend the resistance value is lower". DoT isn't applied as a hit at a time, it's a constant thing.
2) Even if it did, refer to the bolded part of my quote. Fire damage dealt by an attack and burning damage caused by an ignite triggered by an attack are not the same value.

When you convert something, it's affected by modifiers to the thing converted from, and the thing converted to.

If you have IR, your armour is still affected just by increases that apply to armour. You evasion is converted to armour, and affected by any increases that apply to either evasion or to armour.

1) You take your base armour, and apply any increase that applies to armour - this includes Leather and Steel.
2) You take your base evasion, and apply any increase that applies to armour, or to evasion. - this includes Leather and Steel.
3) Add those two numbers together. That's your total armour.

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pantelas69 wrote:

So let's say a duelist or ranger uses gear with armor and evasion. Assume he has total 500 armor and 500 evation.

Case 1: the user doesn't use Iron Reflexes
Case 2: the user uses Iron Reflexes (New Armor = armor + evation)

Math:

Case 1: a) user gets 24% increased armor (1.24 x 500) + 24% increased evation (1.24 x 500)

or b) he gets only 24% to either armor or evation

There is only ONE bonus, and it applies to both armour and to evasion. Armour is increased by the bonus, because it's armour. Evasion is increased by the bonus, because it's evasion.
The numbers match your version a), but your description is inaccurate - there is one bonus, not two separate bonuses.

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pantelas69 wrote:

Case 2: a) user gets 24% increased New armor (500 + 500) x 1.24

or b) he gets 24% to either armor or evation before New armor
ie: (500 x 1.24) + 500 = New Armor

500 base armour is increased by the total of all increases that apply to armour. In this case, the only bonus in play is "24% increased evasion and armour", so that total is 24%. so 500 * 1.24 = 620 armour from base armour.
Base evasion is converted to armour, and affected by all increases that would apply to armour, or to evasion. In this case, the only bonus in play is "24% increased evasion and armour", so that total is 24%. 500 * 1.24 = 620 armour from base evasion.

When you are totalling increases that apply to evasion, L&S is included, because it applies to armour.
When you are totalling increases that apply to armour, L&S is included, because it applies to evasion.
When you are totalling increases that apply to either armour or evasion, which you do for the evasion converted to armour by IR), L&S is included, because it applies to armour or evasion.

A bonus either applies or does not apply. Yes or No. One bonus cannot "apply twice" to one value. Either it applies, or it does not. L&S simply has two cases when it applies - if the thing is armour, or if it's evasion.

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pantelas69 wrote:

Mark_GGG thanks for ur reply. Ur explanation is detailed but without numbers unfortunately. I think people need numbers to understand properly!

I did give numbers - for the first case I said the numbers were sa you listed in your example, and for the second I gave explicit correct numbers.

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pantelas69 wrote:

As stated by u in another thread that the formula used to calculate the total armor when using mixed armor and evation gear with Iron Reflexes and leather and steel would be the following:

Spoiler

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/42605/page/4

Final armour = base armour * (1 + [total increases to armour]) + base evasion * (1 + [total increases to armour and evasion])

if Total Increases to Armour = Armour% + Armour & Evation% from L&S
if Total Increases to Evation = Evation% + Armour & Evation% from L&S
then

Final Armour = Base Armour *(1 + Armour% + "Armour and Evasion%") + Base Evasion *(1 + Evasion% + "Armour and Evasion%")

No. My formula said evasion was increased by "total increases to armour and evasion". You're applying only "total increases to evasion", which is not correct. As I said before, evasion which is converted to armour is affected by modifiers which affect either evasion or armour, not only by those that effect evasion.
This throws off your example with the numbers.

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Zoid wrote:

"% Increased Armour" also applies to converted armour, so the correct formula would be:

Armour = Base Armour * (1 + Armour% + "Armour and Evasion%") + Base Evasion * (1 + Armour% + Evasion% + "Armour and Evasion%")

Using those previous numbers, the total would be:

= 1000 * (1 + 68% + 104%) + 1000 * (1 + 68% + 48% + 50% + 104%)
= 1000 * (1 + 0.68 + 1.04) + 1000 * (1 + 0.68 + 0.48 + 0.5 + 1.04)
= 1000 * 2.72 + 1000 * 3.70
= 2720 + 3700
= 6420

If the item was a shield any "% Increased Defences from equipped shield" passives would also be included in both sets of brackets. Each of the % Increases apply only once to a given unit of base evasion, never twice.

This is entirely correct.