What is the goal of hit chance and missing?

I should note that spells do not interact with accuracy/evasion right now, and I think it'd be a bitch to implement at this stage. That's why we have Phase Acrobatics.

"

Charan wrote:

And Sickness, I wish I could say I have missed your unerring ability to reduce the quality of a thread with your lack of useful contributions, but now I feel bad wasting a wish on something that will probably never change. This thread isn't about D3 and I merely used it to create a contrast between a game has a chance to miss with one that does not. So kindly comment on topic, or not at all. I name thee Troll, and would love nothing more than to see you prove this labelling wrong by actually posting something towards the improvement of this game.

If you are saying that removing accuracy is bad "because it leads to a boring game with cooldown on potions and where you feel powerless and die" then I would say that it is on topic to call that BS out.



I have nothing against accuracy/evasion. But that's maybe only because most of my RPG gaming have been in Morrowind, D2 and DDO, so I am used to being able to miss and I don't feel like it is hurting my gameplay experience.
However, I do find the points raised against accuracy interesting and I don't think they should be countered with ridiculous fallacies.

Accuracy exists because of evasion.

That is the goal and purpose of "hit chance". That's it. If we didn't have hit chance, nothing could evade. And then we'd need a new defensive type for dex classes.

"

anubite wrote:

Accuracy exists because of evasion.

That is the goal and purpose of "hit chance". That's it. If we didn't have hit chance, nothing could evade. And then we'd need a new defensive type for dex classes.

Because you can't have evasion with accuracy, right?

"

Sickness wrote:

"

Charan wrote:

And Sickness, I wish I could say I have missed your unerring ability to reduce the quality of a thread with your lack of useful contributions, but now I feel bad wasting a wish on something that will probably never change. This thread isn't about D3 and I merely used it to create a contrast between a game has a chance to miss with one that does not. So kindly comment on topic, or not at all. I name thee Troll, and would love nothing more than to see you prove this labelling wrong by actually posting something towards the improvement of this game.

If you are saying that removing accuracy is bad "because it leads to a boring game with cooldown on potions and where you feel powerless and die" then I would say that it is on topic to call that BS out.



I have nothing against accuracy/evasion. But that's maybe only because most of my RPG gaming have been in Morrowind, D2 and DDO, so I am used to being able to miss and I don't feel like it is hurting my gameplay experience.
However, I do find the points raised against accuracy interesting and I don't think they should be countered with ridiculous fallacies.

Fair enough -- but I did explain that i didn't mention That Other Game to create a topic about it, merely to show how one game dealt with its lack of evasion/chance to miss in terms of difficulty. I am sure that were GGG to suddenly remove accuracy/evasion, they'd be able to come up with an appropriate means of maintaining difficulty.

Or perhaps not. Perhaps it is the way it is because that's how they want it. The ensuing difficulty is the plan, the frustration part of the game.

I feel that is the case.

And in PoE, evasion and accuracy are inextricably linked. The game measures your accuracy rating against their evasion rating to determine if a damage packet is sent.

That's just the way it is. Bricks and mortar-level game mechanic.

I should also mention here that I personally do not rely entirely on the evasion mechanic to survive. I manually evade with the only real twitch-skill in the game: Whirling Blades.

"

Sickness wrote:

"

anubite wrote:

Accuracy exists because of evasion.

That is the goal and purpose of "hit chance". That's it. If we didn't have hit chance, nothing could evade. And then we'd need a new defensive type for dex classes.

Because you can't have evasion with accuracy, right?

The only way you can have evasion without accuracy is if you make evasion un-counterable; a stat that can only go up. I hope you're not seriously advocating for such a dumb system.

If there's some other way to do it, please enlighten me.

"

Charan wrote:

I recently played some D3. We all know that game has no accuracy factor, no chance to miss. Contrary to what others may think, I found this really unenjoyable. Why? Because it meant that challenge at melee range had to be implemented another way.

Thus cooldown on healing potions and the ludicrous orb system. I really hated the fact that I could die in melee just because my flask was recharging and no orbs dropped. I felt truly powerless.

I am not saying this as a direct comparison...merely I wish to indicate that were accuracy ratings and evasion removed, GGG would have to find an alternate means of making melee hard. Because as much as you want to compare spells never missing to melee never missing, the latter is infinitely stronger by virtue of the relative frailty of most casters.

If anything, I think that frailty has been lost with PoE somewhat, and that in turn puts the spotlight on the potency of spells never missing.

Either way, this thread is implicitly asking for the removal of a core mechanic. Whether or not that mechanic is antiquated is the same asking if PoE itself might be.

Is this really so tough a question for any of us to answer?

Thank you for the post, I really liked this one.

I would like to offer an alternative to the removal of hit chance, since I honestly think your argument is better than mine - but I still think missing is a bad mechanic. Instead of missing - allow 'missed' hits to instead be 'glancing' and deal reduced damage. Say, 25-35% of normal damage. Accuracy remains a mechanic (reducing the frequency of 'glancing' attacks), but you don't have the frustration of a long string of misses on that one guy who has just a sliver of health left and only needs one more hit.

I also think this could make evasion more interesting, as instead of a flat chance to avoid an attack, you can take reduced damage and not be stunned. Though to prevent gutting these builds it might be necessary to double-dip for players only. Perhaps:
1) Chance to completely avoid damage
2) Chance to take reduced damage
3) Full damage

while NPC creatures would only have the option to take reduced damage or full damage - but not avoid attacks.

edit: This would also provide agility-based characters to have a reasonable way of reducing damage without being forced to build armor or falling to a long string of unlucky enemy hits. Strength gets armor and health, Intelligence gets energy shield, Agility can have evasion and glancing blows.

Acrobatics give separate stat from evasion, if evasion behaved like dodge or block, then sure it would work without accuracy. It wouldn't remove misses, though. (And it could only go up just as anubite says.)

"

anubite wrote:

The only way you can have evasion without accuracy is if you make evasion un-counterable; a stat that can only go up. I hope you're not seriously advocating for such a dumb system.

...You mean like block, or even health? I guess the game is dumb already.

Anyway , you can have evasion on a rating curve (like now) without an opposing stat that's in the player's control. You could just substitute your level or the monster's level or something, it'd hardly be the first game to do that. It also doesn't need to be on a rating curve, or tied to an attribute. Like I said, block isn't - you balance things around that.

Pretty academic though; GGG isn't about to change such fundamentals at this point, I expect.

"

GusTheCrocodile wrote:

Pretty academic though; GGG isn't about to change such fundamentals at this point, I expect.

Indeed, and if you're going to wax academic, let it be about far less interesting things than Your Favourite ARPG. ^_^