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Fireknight wrote:
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enkidu44 wrote:
I recently played D3 for the forst time and one of the things that game does good is that you use multiple skills in combat (which from the interview was the intention behind the free-spec system).
In PoE with sockets it seems it pays the most to just buff one combat skill the most. Most my characters have 1 AoE skill, 1 single target skill, 1 curse, 1 shout, 1 aura. It kinda gets boring when all I do is leap slam, leap slam, leap slam.
Maybe if some skills were reworked and had a long cooldown, you would be forced to use a couple of combat skills. Like if the leapslam was buffed alot but had like 10 second cooldown, so I would leapslam into a group of enemies stunning them and such, but then I'd finish tchem off with like a ground slam, which would be spammable.
What dou you think guys?
D3's skill system was terrible. The cooldowns accomplished nothing but reducing build diversity. The popular builds did not use a variety of skills - they built their entire character around bypassing the cooldown of 1-2 main skills and used every other slot for buffs.
I don't feel that's an accurate description of everything that was going on.
Specifically, I think they really nailed how to do "cooldowns" right with the Demon Hunter — instead of having each skill on its own separate cooldown timer, they all shared a resource which allowed you to spam one ability a couple times in a row, but you couldn't spam your Discipline abilities too often. It was a really cool approach to the problem and, for me anyway, completely revolutionized how cooldowns in ARPGs should work.
I see a similar potential in Path of Exile with the flask system. Flask use is limited by kills in much the same way as a Vengeance-based Demon Hunter is... which is a pretty solid way of preventing excessive use of particular abilities. Granite, Quicksilver, and Diamond flasks are but a small part of what could be possible with the flask system. I'd really like to see it expanded.
Which means yes, I'd like to see a Smoke Screen flask. Seriously.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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Posted byScrotieMcB#2697on Sep 9, 2013, 3:00:26 PM
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I hate this idea!!!!
One of the first thing I said when playing D3 for the first time was I hate how they put in cooldowns for every spell or made the resource required to use the skills very high. This does not lead to diversity, it leads to an extreme lack of. Instead of me using what I want to use, or what would be best to use, I have to use what you tell me I can, what is on cooldown, and I will rotated my skills in the same order as every other player with my spec.
1 vote for no, Cooldowns only limit the players creativity and choices in my opinion.
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Posted byMalzarius#3949on Sep 9, 2013, 3:14:02 PM
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Cooldowns are an effective means for more diversity. PoE already has them and could probably use more cooldowns in future skills.
That's all true so not sure what all the arguing is about.
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Posted bykasub#2910on Sep 9, 2013, 3:20:21 PM
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Ragnar119 wrote:
I noticed a lot of people dont like to have cooldowns, and also a lot of people like it. So why not give options that both type of players can use?
Something like new support gem that increases the damage of skill for 300% but adds a small cooldown of 4 sec. So people that like that type of play style will use the support gem, people that dont will not, everyone happy
Very Interesting idea.
Each rank of this support gem, let's call it "Impact", could increased both the damage of the skill and the cooldown time. Let's imagine a level 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20 of this support gem :
Level 1 : 2 seconds cooldown. 25% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
Level 5 : 4 seconds cooldown. 35% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
Level 10 : 7 seconds cooldown. 50% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
Level 15 : 11 seconds cooldown. 70% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
Level 20 : 16 seconds cooldown. 100% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
So, player could choose the cooldown duration they want for their skill. The higher level is the support gem, the longer is the cooldown and the stronger is the supported skill. Ideally, the mana multiplier should scale up with the gem level but currently, support gems always have the same mana multiplier no matter the level (so I chose middle of the road 200%).
Could this pose balance problems ? Probably. If its ever implemented, maybe the number of "Impact" support gems should be limited to 1, 2 or 3 by character ?
Shadow : Covenant Pulser (504561)
Ranger : 12 charges Frenzy Archer (65154), Dual Claws Elemental ST (709126)
Witch : Self-Cast Arc Tanky Witch (770185), AoF EK/Bear trap (863970)
Templar : Frenzy + AB/Fireball "Cast on Crit" Wander (611200)
Marauder : Death Oath Staff User (498864) Last edited by Velkor#2803 on Sep 9, 2013, 4:12:51 PM
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Posted byVelkor#2803on Sep 9, 2013, 3:44:37 PMAlpha Member
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That would be a good gem, if not just because it'd be useable with melee skills which Trap currently is not.
IGN: Asser, AssDelver, Assphobic, AnointedAss, BetrayedByMyAss, CrackedAss, FracturedAss, FulcrumedUpMyAss, ImpaledAss, IncursionOfTheAss, WarForTheAss, UnleashTheAss, ScreamingAsshole, SwampAssKing, Yui
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Posted byWooser69#4318on Sep 9, 2013, 4:57:42 PM
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Velkor wrote:
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Ragnar119 wrote:
I noticed a lot of people dont like to have cooldowns, and also a lot of people like it. So why not give options that both type of players can use?
Something like new support gem that increases the damage of skill for 300% but adds a small cooldown of 4 sec. So people that like that type of play style will use the support gem, people that dont will not, everyone happy
Very Interesting idea.
Each rank of this support gem, let's call it "Impact", could increased both the damage of the skill and the cooldown time. Let's imagine a level 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20 of this support gem :
Level 1 : 2 seconds cooldown. 25% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
Level 5 : 4 seconds cooldown. 35% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
Level 10 : 7 seconds cooldown. 50% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
Level 15 : 11 seconds cooldown. 70% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
Level 20 : 16 seconds cooldown. 100% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
So, player could choose the cooldown duration they want for their skill. The higher level is the support gem, the longer is the cooldown and the stronger is the supported skill. Ideally, the mana multiplier should scale up with the gem level but currently, support gems always have the same mana multiplier no matter the level (so I chose middle of the road 200%).
Could this pose balance problems ? Probably. If its ever implemented, maybe the number of "Impact" support gems should be limited to 1, 2 or 3 by character ?
I like this approach alot more. Not forcing you to have cooldowns is much better. When some abilities in this game has a 2 sec cooldown or spends charges in order to remove the cooldown its because they have been tested and was outright insane with no cooldown.
Another option which was also used in Diablo 2 - Fist of the heavens. This did actually not have a cooldown, but was a REALLY slow cast spell and because of that scaled with your cast speed.
Last edited by Harmster#3342 on Sep 9, 2013, 5:00:04 PM
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Posted byHarmster#3342on Sep 9, 2013, 4:59:26 PMBanned
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Harmster wrote:
Another option which was also used in Diablo 2 - Fist of the heavens. This did actually not have a cooldown, but was a REALLY slow cast spell and because of that scaled with your cast speed.
Actually, FoH was a bit more complicated. It had a hard cap on the rate at which the FoH could hit. You could reduce the time required for the casting animation, but only 1 FoH would actually hit per 2 seconds, for example.
IGN: Dominion / Clamor Last edited by Fireknight#7831 on Sep 9, 2013, 6:01:04 PM
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Posted byFireknight#7831on Sep 9, 2013, 6:00:41 PM
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
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Fireknight wrote:
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enkidu44 wrote:
I recently played D3 for the forst time and one of the things that game does good is that you use multiple skills in combat (which from the interview was the intention behind the free-spec system).
In PoE with sockets it seems it pays the most to just buff one combat skill the most. Most my characters have 1 AoE skill, 1 single target skill, 1 curse, 1 shout, 1 aura. It kinda gets boring when all I do is leap slam, leap slam, leap slam.
Maybe if some skills were reworked and had a long cooldown, you would be forced to use a couple of combat skills. Like if the leapslam was buffed alot but had like 10 second cooldown, so I would leapslam into a group of enemies stunning them and such, but then I'd finish tchem off with like a ground slam, which would be spammable.
What dou you think guys?
D3's skill system was terrible. The cooldowns accomplished nothing but reducing build diversity. The popular builds did not use a variety of skills - they built their entire character around bypassing the cooldown of 1-2 main skills and used every other slot for buffs.
I don't feel that's an accurate description of everything that was going on.
Specifically, I think they really nailed how to do "cooldowns" right with the Demon Hunter — instead of having each skill on its own separate cooldown timer, they all shared a resource which allowed you to spam one ability a couple times in a row, but you couldn't spam your Discipline abilities too often. It was a really cool approach to the problem and, for me anyway, completely revolutionized how cooldowns in ARPGs should work.
I see a similar potential in Path of Exile with the flask system. Flask use is limited by kills in much the same way as a Vengeance-based Demon Hunter is... which is a pretty solid way of preventing excessive use of particular abilities. Granite, Quicksilver, and Diamond flasks are but a small part of what could be possible with the flask system. I'd really like to see it expanded.
Which means yes, I'd like to see a Smoke Screen flask. Seriously.
True, I was primarily considering barb/wizard, where barb would have 100% wrath uptime (a skill with 120s cooldown), and wizard would have 100% archon uptime (again, 120s cooldown). DH without legacy items is a pretty elegant solution - since the cooldowns were soft and based on resources.
IGN: Dominion / Clamor
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Posted byFireknight#7831on Sep 9, 2013, 6:09:55 PM
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Velkor wrote:
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Ragnar119 wrote:
I noticed a lot of people dont like to have cooldowns, and also a lot of people like it. So why not give options that both type of players can use?
Something like new support gem that increases the damage of skill for 300% but adds a small cooldown of 4 sec. So people that like that type of play style will use the support gem, people that dont will not, everyone happy
Very Interesting idea.
Each rank of this support gem, let's call it "Impact", could increased both the damage of the skill and the cooldown time. Let's imagine a level 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20 of this support gem :
Level 1 : 2 seconds cooldown. 25% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
Level 5 : 4 seconds cooldown. 35% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
Level 10 : 7 seconds cooldown. 50% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
Level 15 : 11 seconds cooldown. 70% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
Level 20 : 16 seconds cooldown. 100% More Damage. Mana Multiplier : 200%
So, player could choose the cooldown duration they want for their skill. The higher level is the support gem, the longer is the cooldown and the stronger is the supported skill. Ideally, the mana multiplier should scale up with the gem level but currently, support gems always have the same mana multiplier no matter the level (so I chose middle of the road 200%).
Could this pose balance problems ? Probably. If its ever implemented, maybe the number of "Impact" support gems should be limited to 1, 2 or 3 by character ?
Came into the thread preparing to disagree with any idea about implementing more cooldowns, but I have to say this is a very interesting idea and compromise. :)
IGN : Jovial
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Posted byyhateful#2635on Sep 9, 2013, 8:03:03 PM
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agree with OP.
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Posted bywhrsmycoffee#5188on Sep 9, 2013, 8:15:14 PM
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