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"
Similar case with Queen's Decree; change to +X% increased Minion duration instead of skeletons.


Sorry mate, but this is precisely a reason NOT to do this: it messes with balance. Do this, and Queens becomes BiS for SRS... a build that already is pretty dang strong.

The reason that they stick to flat numbers for minions, is that it's easier to balance and predict the mechanics for. You always know what +1 skeleton is going to do -- while you don't always know what +10% skeletons is going to do.
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Last edited by Censurri on Feb 9, 2021, 11:02:53 PM
SRS is already incredibly powerful, but it has a short duration, which is largely what caps its DPS (remember, the skulls aren't targetable so they rarely die from damage). Queens isn't +10% duration, it's +150%-200% -- you're talking about tripling SRS's damage output. It's not a "skeleton item", it's a minion item with a focus on skeletons.

You're making an argument based upon a theoretical new gem, which is a dangerous proposition already, but you're missing the ramification that pretty much every passive/item that gives +x to number of summons does so for a specific type of summon. Death Attunement only gives +1 spectre, Alberon's only gives 2 skellies, Ullrs give 1 zombie and spectre, Queens gives 2 skellies, a zombie, and a spectre. Thus, you'd still have to say +X% spectres, +X% skellies, +X% zombies, and (theoretically) +X% ravens would have to be added. So either way, you're having to change the existing tree/items to account for this theoretical new gem.

Yes, you made a little chart showing how +% would stack up given certain combinations, but you ignore the fact that someone can get to 4 minions with a passive, boots, and chest (Viz) without getting any increase to skeletons or zombies. Or that someone using skellies currently would use Alberons instead of Ullrs. By switching to a flat %, you would actually reduce the build customization that you claim to be helping. every minion passive/item would become a generic "more minions" boost rather than the very specific, targeted items that they currently are.

not to mention that changing to % would interact very confusingly with Montregul's, which has 50% reduced number of Zombies allowed (this being the only % change in minion # in the entire game). It would greatly increase the power of Montregul's for zombie builds, where it is already generally BiS.

The entire point of golems is that you can only ever have one. They are created and balanced that way. The mere fact of the buff they give you means that 2+ golems would be massively overpowered (in addition to the fact that they are likely to be individually stronger than even spectres).

"
"Messing with balance" is not an appropriate reason to avoid changing an object if everything involved can or would be balanced accordingly, of course ... Neither you nor I know why it's flat numbers, we can only speculate.


Beyond all of that, the fact that you started this thread almost 2 years ago and GGG has seen fit to keep the current system tells me that they don't think that there is any reason to change it.
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Last edited by tsftd on Apr 19, 2015, 12:48:13 PM
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Last edited by Censurri on Feb 9, 2021, 11:02:47 PM
Guys, the solution can be a little more straightforward.

Instead of thinking about it as # of minions, it could be treated as a form of "capacity" or "power".

(Hypotetical numbers below)
Let's say you have 20 "minion power".
A skeleton occupies 1 power.
A zombie occupies 2 power.
A spectre occupies 4 power.
A lich could occupy 10 power (hypotetical powerful undead minion).

Some of the skills may still have their individual minion caps, although probably more loose (if done as suggested in Note#1), so that the "minion power" becomes the true "restraint".

Skills like Skeleton or Zombie would also lowering their minion power "cost" as you level them up.

Passives and gear would now affect your "minion power" in addition to (Note#1: instead of) increasing individual caps.

All those uniques and nodes have no negative impact on future minion skills as long as distinctions are made for the sake of balance and flavor - if a skill is Lord of the Dead, it shouldn't affect animal minions, don't you think?

To go further, undead minions and animal minions might not share the same "power" type.
Undead minions might occupy "Undeath Mastery" and Animal minions might occupy "Nature Mastery".

Alternatively (or in conjunction with the above), Minions could even reserve mana.
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Last edited by Nurvus on Apr 20, 2015, 12:50:30 AM
this is even worse for build diversity, and more OP. people would focus on stacking a ton of one minion type (mostly spectres or mont zombies). keep in mind that one thing that balances summoners is the dearth of sockets they have. if you run even just zombies and spectres at a minimum, they use very different support gems so you wind up with one on 6 links and tge other on 4. this would let them just run all of one type on a 6l.

making minions reserve mana would severely cripple summoners -- they almost universally heavily rely on auras.

also, i have no idea why "lord of the dead" would only affect animals. are spectres, zombies, and skeletons not dead?
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Last edited by tsftd on Apr 20, 2015, 4:59:42 AM

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