Why did we make armor reduce move speed?

Why? To nerf armor - the most overpowered defense system? -___-. Can we remove it?

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laian wrote:

Why? To nerf armor - the most overpowered defense system? -___-. Can we remove it?

Body armor (and some shields) have always reduced movement speed. I don't see why you think this is a sudden change. It's a design choice.

Yes, and since it's in beta, we could remove it! We could!!

It just makes sense, all armor types have varying range of movement penaltiees, the *heavier* the armor. The slower you are, but don't worry, just pick up armor mastery passive, heck im shooting for 25% movment speed wearing the heaviest stuff around :)

There's two things I really don't understand and that I think is stupid:

1. Virtually all torso equip has movement penalties. Considering that torso equip is quite required under all circumstances, it makes no sense to give all torso armors penalties instead of just some armors penalties.

2. Why do strength-int armor have high movement penalty when str-dex doesn't? it's stupid. Str-int armor is already the worst stuff in the game if that's ignored, it doesn't need to be any worse! This isn't dungeons and dragons role playing going on, it's a game where gameplay balance is paramount.

This game is not about realism. The argument that chain mail and plate mail should slow a person down more is absolutely terrible when it gives the same or worse (I certainly think armor's worse than evasion) benefit.
I could understand if armor was made more strong, but even then str-int shouldn't be as slow as pure str because their defense only have half the better defense.

Lastly, the whole point of str gear slowing down a character makes for poor gameplay/balance because str characters are almost always melee. Melee characters always need to move close to their targets to hit them. Aside from it being counter-inventive for PvE that str users can't get to their targets as easily, it pretty much completely nullifies any ability for str characters to perform in PvP since they'll never get to their opponents (assuming they both have or don't have temporal chains, something quite unlikely for many str characters to have or use well in the first place)

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Xapti wrote:

(I certainly think armor's worse than evasion)

I can agree with you, but only in a very narrow subset of situations. You need to be able to trick yourself into believing evasion actually influences EHP.

It's a complete mentality shift in how you play your character, to make this true when it's even possible. How many HC duelists take iron reflexes? Pretty compelling evidence. Evasion plainly isn't better than armor in all situations, despite being a "more efficient" stat for making max use of your regen and life leech.

Before you go thinking I'm throwing your whole idea out, my duelist doesn't carry iron reflexes, and I only play HC. I like my evasion, but I'm very realistic about this simple fact: there are many situations where having armor would be preferable. I have to avoid those situations or control them very carefully.

Now, to reset this thread back on track: OP, I don't feel bad about my tank templar being really slow, or having no access to phase run. In fact his runspeed isn't the big thing that makes him slow, it's hit low DPS and heavy use of defensive abilities. Enfeeble, enduring cry, rejuv totem, they all cut into it. I also don't feel bad about armor mastery being out of reach for me. It's somewhat in character for a duelist to be running around as fast as a shadow.

What the templar needs is some kind of alternative, a way to pick up additional run speed, even if it winds up being a fairly expensive option. More abilities that move while attacking - shield bash / leap slam are too niche. Need something that advances gradually while doing reasonable single target or AoE damage.

omg you people are realyl one sided and st000pid.
I play alot heavy charachters(currently a duelist tank in 2week HC race), and heres why;
1 armors are HEAVY, try to wear a armor and tell me if you can run with it.
2 str/int means you are intelligent and strong, not agile.
Str/Dex means you are strong AND agile, so you can run more.
3 This is a game, ok, but devs are trying to make it a little realistic; we dont want "that game", we want a good game, and pure str/str int/str dex armor is intended to be slow.

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Xapti wrote:

1. Virtually all torso equip has movement penalties. Considering that torso equip is quite required under all circumstances, it makes no sense to give all torso armors penalties instead of just some armors penalties.

Agreed. The exact same gameplay could achieved by raising all movespeeds on armors +4 (so plate goes from -8 to -4 and silk goes from -4 to 0 (and assassin garb goes from +3 to +7)) and changing the Armor Mastery keystone to "removes movement penalties from armor, +4 movespeed", and then slightly decreasing movement speed overall.

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Xapti wrote:

2. Why do strength-int armor have high movement penalty when str-dex doesn't? it's stupid. Str-int armor is already the worst stuff in the game if that's ignored, it doesn't need to be any worse! This isn't dungeons and dragons role playing going on, it's a game where gameplay balance is paramount.

Yeah, that's a little weird. For a long time I thought that the penalty was what fraction of the requirements was strength (so dex,int,dex/int are 0, str/dex,str/int are -4, and str is -8). Was surprised to see it wasn't symmetric.

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Xapti wrote:

Lastly, the whole point of str gear slowing down a character makes for poor gameplay/balance because str characters are almost always melee. Melee characters always need to move close to their targets to hit them. Aside from it being counter-inventive for PvE that str users can't get to their targets as easily, it pretty much completely nullifies any ability for str characters to perform in PvP since they'll never get to their opponents (assuming they both have or don't have temporal chains, something quite unlikely for many str characters to have or use well in the first place)

This also assumes that the only way for a melee to close gaps is via running. Shield Charge, Flicker Strike (even with cooldown), and a fast attacking Whirling Blades are all excellent gapclosers that are only available to melee characters.


Personally I feel like the entire interaction of armor and move speed should be torn out since it's fairly miniscule (a whole 4% movespeed! heavens!) and feels like an stat for the sake of having a stat.

EDIT: And cannabalizing the str/dex/int armor for its graphics was pretty questionable. I hope we get tri-stat gear for all-rounder characters like aura summoners and poison arrow characters.

Tried to think of a good argument to justify slower movement speed but I couldn't really.

Tri-stat armor and weapons would be very, very cool and give an incentive to actually make a triple-stat character.

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RDSchley wrote:

Tri-stat armor and weapons would be very, very cool and give an incentive to actually make a triple-stat character.

There used to be 3 of them (armors), about 1 every 20 levels or so.
It's sad that they got rid of them because I thought they were cool. I also liked their appearance, and while the skin is still in the game, it's now on pure-int clothing, which I really don't like (although there are a few builds I could do with ES, but overall I don't like it)

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pneuma wrote:

This also assumes that the only way for a melee to close gaps is via running. Shield Charge, Flicker Strike (even with cooldown), and a fast attacking Whirling Blades are all excellent gapclosers that are only available to melee characters.

while reasonable for PvE, shield charge and leap slam would be rather terrible in PvP. Whirling blades would be slightly better, but still poor since it's damage is very bad, there's an aftercast pause that would leave the character vulnerable, and it's still quite dodgeable. Flicker strike could work, but only if the attack is fast enough (otherwise the player may run out of range before it hits)— it would be OP though and everyone would run it. The only thing melee characters could do would be to use flicker strike, or non-melee-range skills (like ground slam). Just because 1 or two skills can counter the problem doesn't solve the overall issue unless everyone running the same thing is appealing.