What POE can take from D3

Feel free to move this to Off-topic if it goes that way.
I’d like to start by saying I’m not bashing D3 in this thread, it is an ok game with many flaws. But overall I found it enjoyable and worth the money I spent on it.

So I have returned from my brief experience with D3 (one character to lvl 50). I am going to highlight here what in my opinion the problems are and what can be taken from D3 to improve POE.

First the bad:

Level 60 cap

This has moved away from D2 which had a hard to reach max level people would spend months trying to attain. Every 10 year old and their grandparents will now have no problem getting to max level. This is made worse by the fact that all base characters of the same level are the same.

POE has already solved this by having a hard to reach max level ala D2.

Little to no RPG elements

This is one of my biggest gripes with the game. I enjoy making choices, thinking up crazy sub-optimal builds. Having no stat point allocation (only from gear) is wrong. People are still going to build for max damage/hp no matter what, they now just need to find (lol), or rather buy the gear needed. Skill allocation is a joke, there is the illusion of choice but really you are still pigeonholed into the best combination or else you can’t kill. There is no investment in your character, no attachment to them, no skill in building a character correctly. At first I liked this system because I could try skills easily, however I would rather learn through permanent mistake than have my hand held and a pat on the head when I finally get it right. Worst of all I don’t enjoy levelling up woohoo another rune for a skill I never use!

POE has the massive passive skill tree which you can spend a lot of time on planning builds. It punishes you for making the wrong choices (although these can be remedied by regret orbs/respec points). The skill system is sufficiently deep and satisfying with support gems and socket limitations. My biggest dislike about the current skill system is that it is a bit spammy and most builds only use 1-2 skills plus auras.

The Auction House

This takes away the thrill of item finding, plain and simple. Why get excited for a rare item that hardly ever drops when you can go on the auction house spend 5000 gold and get an item far superior to the one you just found. I’m not going to mention the P2W auction house on here. I know there is a trade screen but I have never used it, why would I when it is so easy to use the AH?

POE is yet to have a trade system detailed but I really hope they do not go the AH route. I would love for them to implement a forum trading chat channel or something similar. The fact you are trading with another community member needs to be kept also. It can’t just be another robotic click there has to be interaction between the trading parties.

The static maps

Although the maps are beautiful there is virtually no randomisation at all. The same tiles are used for almost every dungeon just with a different skin. This is fine for the first time through but it gets very boring on subsequent runs.

POE has randomised areas which is great for re-playability. My biggest criticism of the current system is that it is not random enough. I feel like I know where to go on every map (however I had the same feeling with D3 on my first run), there is work to do here for the random generator, shortcuts with extra hard monsters need to be added, multiple dead ends and multiple paths to the exit need to be added.

The Loot

Loot drops are horrible. Plain and simple, even when that great item drops all you will get is an additional 1% run speed +100 to all stats and + resists. Boring. What happened to the %on hit or %on crit mods?

Although POE loot is already better that D3 loot there is still much work to be done. We need mods that are unique. Things to take from D3 are chance to bleed/chance to blind on hit. Mods we can take from D2 are chance to cast spells/curses on hit/being hit. This is a very important area of the game, although POE is good it has not nailed the D2 feel of loot yet.

End Game

There is only the insanely hard inferno.

POE has the recently announced maps, but will this system be enough? I have doubts but will reserve my judgement until act 3 arrives.

Now the good:

Monster death animations

The varied ways monsters die is great to see. This is a standout of D3 for me. I do not care about a ragdoll system however it is not needed.

I hope that POE will add 1 death animation per monster for free. More variety needs to be added, poison clouds on death etc. Additional death animations should be bought in the cash shop. This is something I would spend a lot on (I’m probably not alone in this).

Monster variety

Maybe because it has 4 completed acts but I did notice a good variety of mobs when playing D3. Most monsters have unique monster skills which is great also. Mobs that can summon/spawn other mobs are fun to fight.

This is where POE needs some work. More mobs need unique skills, there needs to be a larger variety of mobs also. Monster spawners like the D2 bat nests or sarcophagi would be a great addition.

Fluidity of combat

This has been mentioned many times and having played the game I have to agree. POE feels a little clunky in comparison.

Speed up the initial run speed by 10%. Change the casting animations to be able to be cancelled earlier. Remove/change the casting animation for auras so you can cast them on the run.

Voice acting

While some is poor a majority is very good. It helps a lot with immersion and feel of the game.

Going by our only example of the Marauder intro the voice acting in POE will be on par with D3. If we take examples from the class videos, the witch is average at best, Oak is great and the Templar fits very well in my opinion.

Mercenaries/followers

D3 has quite a good merc system. It is different from the D2 system better in some ways, worse in others. I like the fact that you can choose skills for your mercs and I like the interactions between them and your character.

To my knowledge there has not been any announcements regarding mercenaries for POE yet. I believe they would fit into the game (being exiled, surviving, wanting to earn currency, escaping to Oriath). They would of course have to cost, perhaps they could take every fourth currency item that drops for you or something. They should not be necessary but should provide a bonus sufficient to their cost.

Feel free to add your own points on what can be learnt from D3. Keep it civil and constructive please. We are all here to help GGG make POE the best APG ever.

I personally feel death animations are not a "huge" thing. Does it allow for immersion? Yes, but from what I've seen over the years, ARPG's aren't generally about immersion. They tell a loosely based story that is surrounded by loot and becoming stronger. The immersion that comes out of an ARPG is the defining of your character as a unique individual through both loot and skills. IMO, I would not consider death animations as good, but a neutral, consider it like flavor text.

Voice Acting, SOME? With the exception of Shen, the voice acting is really, REALLY bad in Diablo 3, on par with a B movie if you ask me. Not to mention Blizzard is a Tripple A establishment that can afford amazing voice actors (although they apparently didn't). Voice acting isn't even necessary, is it so much to ask people to read these days? Yes, I realize it also helps with immersion, but this isn't a purely based RPG, if you add too much story, you end up with the failure that is Diablo 3. Immersion is a delicate balance IMO.

I entirely disagree on Diablo 3 having a good merc system. Let me say, the skill aspect is a definite positive of their system. However, mercs are entirely worthless as anything more than a stat stick after nightmare IMO. Their constant annoying dialog, attacking everything in sight without you first attacking it(granted this was in D2 as well), and an inability to fully equip them to a degree makes them very bland and well, boring and worthless unlike the Diablo 2 mercs. I also feel its necessary to add that the benefits that come from having a merc are massively dwarfed once you reach hell and inferno. Heal becomes increasingly worthless on the templar for example. Eventually you're forced to pick only two mercs. The scoundrel for crit, or the enchantress for AS and increased damage.

Also, the level cap of 60 isn't a bad thing, the problem with it is that it is so easily reached.

I have over 250 hours in Diablo 3, and 6 level 60s. I have an extensive amount of knowledge and playtime with Diablo 2 as well. (Just giving some background on my knowledge)

If D3's voice acting were any cheesier you could melt it in a pot and dip your bread in it.

Chris has stated outright there will be no Auction House for PoE. Repeatedly.

NPC mercenaries completely undermine the fact that the game is online-only and you can form parties very easily. They also detract from the fact that we are exiles, desperate and alone, albeit alone together. If the game has mercenaries, technically it's us.

I have no problem with the current run-speed in PoE. You can buff it quite easily if you want -- people neglect the movement speed nodes on the Skilldrasil, but they're there. People also tend to forget that you couldn't run forever in D2 either. At least PoE doesn't have a stamina bar -- but I'm thankful it also doesn't sacrifice a small measure of realism for gamers who want everything to be quicker.

Chance to blind on hit is coming.

"

Gott wrote:

I personally feel death animations are not a "huge" thing. Does it allow for immersion? Yes, but from what I've seen over the years, ARPG's aren't generally about immersion. They tell a loosely based story that is surrounded by loot and becoming stronger. The immersion that comes out of an ARPG is the defining of your character as a unique individual through both loot and skills. IMO, I would not consider death animations as good, but a neutral, consider it like flavor text.

Voice Acting, SOME? With the exception of Shen, the voice acting is really, REALLY bad in Diablo 3, on par with a B movie if you ask me. Not to mention Blizzard is a Tripple A establishment that can afford amazing voice actors (although they apparently didn't). Voice acting isn't even necessary, is it so much to ask people to read these days? Yes, I realize it also helps with immersion, but this isn't a purely based RPG, if you add too much story, you end up with the failure that is Diablo 3. Immersion is a delicate balance IMO.

I entirely disagree on Diablo 3 having a good merc system. Let me say, the skill aspect is a definite positive of their system. However, mercs are entirely worthless as anything more than a stat stick after nightmare IMO. Their constant annoying dialog, attacking everything in sight without you first attacking it(granted this was in D2 as well), and an inability to fully equip them to a degree makes them very bland and well, boring and worthless unlike the Diablo 2 mercs. I also feel its necessary to add that the benefits that come from having a merc are massively dwarfed once you reach hell and inferno. Heal becomes increasingly worthless on the templar for example. Eventually you're forced to pick only two mercs. The scoundrel for crit, or the enchantress for AS and increased damage.

Also, the level cap of 60 isn't a bad thing, the problem with it is that it is so easily reached.

I have over 250 hours in Diablo 3, and 6 level 60s. I have an extensive amount of knowledge and playtime with Diablo 2 as well. (Just giving some background on my knowledge)

It is good to hear other peoples opinions. I really did not think the voice acting was that bad, perhaps the content was a little cheesy but the actors themselves done well with the poor script they were given.

It would be nice to have some way to turn Merc banter off. I can't comment on how useful they would be post act 4 Nightmare because I have not got there yet. I expect your experience will be mine though so I'll end up dropping my merc.

You are exactly right about the level 60 cap being too easy to reach. I presume this is so they can add levels in an expansion.

"

Charanjaydemyr wrote:

If D3's voice acting were any cheesier you could melt it in a pot and dip your bread in it.

Chris has stated outright there will be no Auction House for PoE. Repeatedly.

NPC mercenaries completely undermine the fact that the game is online-only and you can form parties very easily. They also detract from the fact that we are exiles, desperate and alone, albeit alone together. If the game has mercenaries, technically it's us.

I have no problem with the current run-speed in PoE. You can buff it quite easily if you want -- people neglect the movement speed nodes on the Skilldrasil, but they're there. People also tend to forget that you couldn't run forever in D2 either. At least PoE doesn't have a stamina bar -- but I'm thankful it also doesn't sacrifice a small measure of realism for gamers who want everything to be quicker.

Chance to blind on hit is coming.

You can't say that mercenaries are a bad idea because we are alone, and also knock mercenaries because we can form teams... I see no issues with mercenaries, if anything Wraeclast obviously has a viable population, it would make sense that those who have managed to survive would offer their services to others in exchange for goods... or to trick them, kill them, and take their loot. Now THAT would be interesting.

"

Charanjaydemyr wrote:

If D3's voice acting were any cheesier you could melt it in a pot and dip your bread in it.

Chris has stated outright there will be no Auction House for PoE. Repeatedly.

NPC mercenaries completely undermine the fact that the game is online-only and you can form parties very easily. They also detract from the fact that we are exiles, desperate and alone, albeit alone together. If the game has mercenaries, technically it's us.

I have no problem with the current run-speed in PoE. You can buff it quite easily if you want -- people neglect the movement speed nodes on the Skilldrasil, but they're there. People also tend to forget that you couldn't run forever in D2 either. At least PoE doesn't have a stamina bar -- but I'm thankful it also doesn't sacrifice a small measure of realism for gamers who want everything to be quicker.

Chance to blind on hit is coming.

I seem to have missed where he stated that. Which is a suprise as I am a forum whore. The closest I found is this:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/13354/page/4

Where he does not state that there will not be an auction house.

I disagree with you on the merc front. Everyone on Wraeclast is out to survive. If banding together with a more powerful ally (the player) is going to help them survive that in itself justifies mercs. They are not needed however and I would not care if they are ingame or not.

You are right about the run speed in the passive tree. I am thinking more about first time players who have no idea what the passive tree is coming into the game, starting to play, thinking it is too slow then leaving before giving the game a chance.

Good to hear chance to blind is coming, the more unique mods the better.

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

You can't say that mercenaries are a bad idea because we are alone, and also knock mercenaries because we can form teams... I see no issues with mercenaries, if anything Wraeclast obviously has a viable population, it would make sense that those who have managed to survive would offer their services to others in exchange for goods... or to trick them, kill them, and take their loot. Now THAT would be interesting.

I think that NPC mercenaries are fine in a game where you're not immediately exposed to other players. In this case, I have to look once again at Guild Wars 1, where you could hire mercenaries but good grief were they ever so inferior to real people. It wasn't until ANet introduced 'heroes' -- much more customisable NCPS mercenaries, really -- that playing without a full party of 'real' people was even possible.

So far, I like the idea of other exiles, NPC exiles, being corpses. It shows that only the smartest, strongest exiles survive Wraeclast: the human-controlled ones, not the NPCs. Of course it's a metagamey concept, but there it is.

I've been left sour on the idea of mercenaries in ARPGs ever since D2's latter iterations of them, where you could put runeworded-gear that projected a Paladin aura on a mercenary and turn him or her into a two-legged support machine.

But sure, if anyone could restore my faith in the NPC mercenary, it might as well be GGG.

"

POE has the recently announced maps, but will this system be enough?

Leagues, Ladders, Custom Leagues, PvP, and Maps
VS
Migraine inducing Inferno grind...for crap loot

and this is just to start; GGG could very well come up with some other crazy cool stuff down the pipeline. Personally, based on how they've handled the game thus far, I'm not worried at all about what to do at end game; there's already a metric ton more to do compared to...that other game.

Your first three points are quite valid, however, PoE is still considered, and probably will be for a bit, in Beta. Like end game, I wouldn't be too bugged about that stuff; most likely the GGG crew is keeping a running tally of stuff like this that frequently pops up on the forums and have it on their "To-Do before release" list.

Voice acting...eh. If they can get a some good VA's together to voice key parts in the story, sure, but not at the expense of improving/adding to gameplay and such. I'm a seasoned, somewhat old-school gamer, and can get pretty damn immersed with just text and the right setting; as long as it's done right, I'm whisked away :D. If they can squeeze in VA, cool, otherwise, I'll live.

I don't how to feel about Mercs, especially considering the setting. I don't know whether it would be a truly GLOOORIOUS addition or a MONSTOROUS CREA-CHA to implement. Joking about a particular Templar aside, Mercs/Followers...could work? Maybe, I never was too big on the aspect, I do honestly prefer grouping up with others and having a blast that way, but, if GGG could plug it into PoE and add their own twist to it, could be a worth a shot.

Every single little detail in your list. I just wish this list could actually be brought up to Blizz so they can actually listen and do some good. Instead we only get updates that no one wants. We will have to see, D2 wasn't any better on release.

Ive said this before and ill say it again, the voice acting in D3 is bad, but why you ask. . . And the answer is simple. No emotion. If your voice acting does not pass any emotion, you might as well not waste the money on having one.
Second, physics on dead monsters? Really? A rag doll. . . Please. . . Poe got it right, slash that bastard open and leave that corpse bleeding all over the ground, thats how I want my dead monsters.
Third, mercenaries, ya know the scene at wraeclast can get overwhelming qhen you screw up and let yourself get surrounded but otherwise its pretty easy and you can kill everything alone, but maybe a mercenary to carry loot? That would be cool.
Monster variety, if poe was a finished game, with little variety of monsters and monster skills then I would be concerned, but thats not the case.

One thing that poe could follow is the imersion on the plot, when you play poe its easy to forget what you are doing at wraeclast, but im sure thatll be addressed. D3 never lets you forget whats going on with its cheesy convos and bad storyline, but at least you know whats going on.

P.S I have D3 and have played up to act 2 after facing maghda, i feel discouraged about playing the game thats why i have not finished it yet. The way they killed deckard cain pissed me off, clearly the person that did it does not understand the importance of the character for the story.