Skill Gems Dual Mode(POE 2 Suggestion)

Hi Poe addicts :D !
do you have some time to listen to my stupid idea?

Context/Disclaimer: We already know that in "Path of Exile 2" we will have a change in the gem system, also the intention of this is to shift the way players plan their builds around only one main skill gem into a new where multiple gems would be used. This is followed by the fact that in PoE2 will be possible to have multiple 6 links in the same build.


having that in mind, GGG has some 'problem' to solve:

Problemthe actual game gives absolutely no reason to use multiple main skill gems (even it was already possible) and the reason is simple: our skills has no cooldown!

This means that its way more optimized building around only one thing and spam it forever which frustates ggg's plans.

also, the current way of building characters pleases a large part of the players who can naturally be frustrated by the change, some players like the game precisely because of the freedom of being able to use a spell again and again and again without being limitated by cooldowns like in other arpgs.


hypothesis on GGG's solutions:
MAYBE i'M WRONG, but in the past few leagues i have noticed ggg tried to force into the game mechanics that suggest they are trying to give reasons for players have into their builds 'alternative' setups or combo oriented skills.

it started with blade blast, that requires blade vortex/blade fall to be activated and after we saw things like Void Sphere, Frost Shield, Ambush, Hexblast...(2 buttons builds/ fighting support skills)

We also saw ggg inserting into the game damage immunities(expedition) and semi imunne foes(Cycling Damage Reduction) which makes me think it's a way to force players to have alternate skill settings for conditional situations.

I don't know if this is the right direction given that players do everything possible to dodge the need to press multiple buttons in the game.

Some examples about how things are going in the actual league:

Hex blast: what happaned? they are putting it on a mine and automating the application of curses.
Impeding doom :players tied the viability of the skill to a glove.

All defensive skills, Void Sphere, Self-casting curses, Frost Shield, Sigil of Power ,Hydrosphere and many others: or they are all automated, or used in an extremely situational way due to how the game is thought nowadays.

It seems to me that ggg's approach goes against the convention. I don't think there is a convergence between what GGG wants and what the players want.

Solution:
First, It is a difficult path, but it seems to me the only correct path: give people choice.

What about a 'Dual Skill Gem Mode'?


Most active path of exile gem would have two different instances:

Unleash Mode and Combo Mode.

its not skill binded, its character binded(On Combo Mode every skills works as combo, on Unleash Modeevery skill works as unleash); You can change it whenever you want when OUT OF BATTLE (Just like Pantheons)


On Unleash Mode: we have no cooldown on skills, so basically on this mode we are playing the path of exile we already know, you can still use different setups for situational context if you need.

On Combo Mode: Skills gain big cooldowns based on its power , skills are way more powerful applying combo aspects on enemies, like death marks, damage multipliers, multiple elemental interactions... On this mode players are encouraged to do skill rotations (Just like many arpgs/mmos on market)

Some examples:

Ice Shot(Unleash Mode): Same iceshot there is in the game.

Ice Shot(Combo Mode): Ice shot has 5 charge, 10 seconds Cooldown each charge(works independently), Sequential fires of Ice shot deals 20*amount of charges used recently, Ice Shot applies ' resistivity' on enemies for 4 seconds ( lightning skills deal 40% more damage on enemies with 'reisistivity')


Party Play Solution: 'Your chracter is on Unleash mode and cant benefit from skills on Combo Mode'


Pro: Insanely increased amount of possibilities, two ways to play path of exile(build dependent), chose what you like most"

Cons: GGG's has to balance two aspects of the game that works independently.

TLDR: Solve the multiple skills intention giving people choices, make the game playable both ways, create a Dual Mode on skills easily to switch between . A combo mode with high cd and stronger effects encouraging 'skill rotations' and a Unleash mode with spammable skill.

You know what I think would completely change the game? And perhaps not in a way I would like...

Get rid of all triggers. All of them.

No more CWDT, no more curse on hit, no more cwc, no more socketed spells cast when you do x.

This immediately forces the player to click more buttons. You HAVE to manually cast your curses, there would be no other way. You would HAVE to manually cast your buff skills.

I LOVE triggers. I LOVE getting my builds to the point where 90% of the work is automatic. But even I can see how detrimental to the game that is...when I can literally touch a single button and have 100 different things happen. Or not touch ANY button and still have 100 different things happen.

You can have unique items that cause unique things to happen when you use a specific skill (like the sets in D3, oof I brought up a postivie about D3...), but have it be a non-global unique effect. Don't have it work on ALL spells, have it work on a small subset of spells so that it doesn't become a must-have for EVERY build. At the same time, it can't be for a single spell because then depending on the effect, it might become mandatory for ALL builds of that spell to use it and you want to avoid something so bottlenecking.

This also points to the speed meta though. The game is so fast-paced that having a multi-button build is simply uncomfortable to play with. The game needs to slow down first and foremost, before any changes to how skills work would make sense. I can't be immediately surrounded by 1000 enemies hitting me like mac trucks if they want me to decide which skill to use and when...its either spam or die.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

You know what I think would completely change the game? And perhaps not in a way I would like...

Get rid of all triggers. All of them.

No more CWDT, no more curse on hit, no more cwc, no more socketed spells cast when you do x.

This immediately forces the player to click more buttons. You HAVE to manually cast your curses, there would be no other way. You would HAVE to manually cast your buff skills.

I LOVE triggers. I LOVE getting my builds to the point where 90% of the work is automatic. But even I can see how detrimental to the game that is...when I can literally touch a single button and have 100 different things happen. Or not touch ANY button and still have 100 different things happen.

You can have unique items that cause unique things to happen when you use a specific skill (like the sets in D3, oof I brought up a postivie about D3...), but have it be a non-global unique effect. Don't have it work on ALL spells, have it work on a small subset of spells so that it doesn't become a must-have for EVERY build. At the same time, it can't be for a single spell because then depending on the effect, it might become mandatory for ALL builds of that spell to use it and you want to avoid something so bottlenecking.

This also points to the speed meta though. The game is so fast-paced that having a multi-button build is simply uncomfortable to play with. The game needs to slow down first and foremost, before any changes to how skills work would make sense. I can't be immediately surrounded by 1000 enemies hitting me like mac trucks if they want me to decide which skill to use and when...its either spam or die.

The game wouldn't be PoE anymore if they take out the in depths character optimisation for the named stuff. Not to mention that a couple of build archetypes would just entirely die.
Some builds already have enough buttons to click and it would be a pure pain to cast your mark or curse manually amongst the other stuff.
Stuff like immortal call would lose their purpose same as other useful cwdt setups.

I mean we play PoE after all and not a MMORPG with 10+ button clicks and abilities. Or diablo with a rather limited character and build options.

^I have to disagree. They only lose their purpose in a game that moves at the current speed of PoE.

For example, look at defensive skills in all the other new arpgs: d4, last epoch, etc. They are all self-cast and do just fine. In those games, builds regularly push 6+ buttons in each build. It is entirely possible, but ONLY in a slower game with more meaningful fights.

The triggers are a bit of a cycle here: they cannot exist as self-cast because of the game; however, they also owe their existence and balance as triggers BECAUSE of the game.

Yes, we would lose some archetypes. I would argue that any drastic change will result in losses of many build archetypes. But ultimately, that is what is necessary to make the game better. Certain builds simply can't and shouldn't be viable in the "new" world of PoE 2.

It is utterly impossible to make any meaningful change if you are worried about cracking a few build eggs.

"

Pashid wrote:

I mean we play PoE after all and not a MMORPG with 10+ button clicks and abilities. Or diablo with a rather limited character and build options.

You added this after I typed...I also sort of disagree with this as well.

PoE, to me, or what makes PoE unique and special is the passive tree and the skill gem system. That's really it. The fact that any class can do anything if they really want to. That all items are accessible to all characters. That all skills are accessible to everyone. No other arpg has something like this.

The entire gameplay can change, but if these aspects stay, it will STILL be PoE. The current gameplay is a cancer that has been left untreated for years. It needs treatment, or total removal, for the health of the underlying "PoE". The triggers don't make the game, the builds that currently exist don't make the game. It's the systems on which the game is built, the unique character and skill building.

PoE gameplay 10 years ago is NOTHING like what it is today. PoE gameplay 5 years ago is NOTHING like what it is today. The identity of PoE (at least to me) has NEVER been about specific builds or specific gameplay. It's just a hack and slash after all.

Looks like they are doing it, but its somehow attched to the new ascedencies?

I struggle with a right hand mouse and 1 left hand keyboard button. 3 auto use flasks make the game playable. If I had to manage all five flasks plus other buttons I could not do it. My fingers don't work like that any more.

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ChanBalam wrote:

I struggle with a right hand mouse and 1 left hand keyboard button. 3 auto use flasks make the game playable. If I had to manage all five flasks plus other buttons I could not do it. My fingers don't work like that any more.

you are right, thats another struggle to be solved, i completely forgot about that, i'm playing to much pathfinder lately.