Debunking the idea that Orbs are in any way superior to Gold
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A few points:
- Gold or currency items, currency items or gold... Honestly both sides can work. - Not many game-developers have got a gold-economy without ridiculous inflation. I am not saying it is impossible cause it certainly isn't, but I would argue that the price of lowering inflation of a gold-economy almost always are universally problematic from the players POV. - The currency-items has a completely different inflation structure. Some of the currency-items inflate a lot, while others actually deflate to some degree. It is a tough system to balance and it still needs some tweaking, but they have got the possibility to control it a lot better than pure gold economy. - GGG will have to balance: 1. Vendor prizing 2. Drop-rates 3. Recipes 4. Usefulness That is a problem/opportunity for every currency item in the game and I do not think it will reach a perfect equilibrium for a very long time, which will be quite a challenge and will lead to whine from especially economy-manipulaters a.k.a. "large scale traders". Generally I think GGG has these challenges covered by Qarl, Mark and Chris. People need to understand that this is not a direct clone of anything and that no gold-currency is a design-decission and not necesssarily a flaw. I appear to be living in "Romance Standard Time". That has to be good! :)
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" I dont think the OP or anyone suggested it was flawed, it works fine, but the reality is it functions very similar to a gold system, it has the same drawbacks just different advantages. I think the OP was merely saying that if it was created to avoid inflation and poor in game economies like you get in most ARPGs then in that regard its no better than gold, just different. | |
" while the amount of currency has surpassed the amount of available gold, money is not just created out of thin air as you want to elude to either. the most basic example for proof is the united states national debt. if the united states could just print off as much money as they needed at any given point, they would not have this astronomical debt. they would simply print the money and be done with it. there are a lot of conspiracy theorists out there who will go on about this and that with the american dollar and how its created out of thin air, but there are also people who live in bomb shelters and spend all of their lives waiting for the "d-day". if you expect the governments to collapse then your best bet is to invest in real resources that will be valuable in what will essentially be a dark age... and for some reason many people seem to think its going to be precious metals, but honestly you cant use precious metals as a power source, food, or shelter... so in my opinion thats also a poor bet. there are also people who believe the world will end this december and there is nothing anyone can do about it because of some mayan calender. if you want to live in paranoia its not difficult to find a theory and just run with it. edit - a person would also have to wonder why anyone would choose to study a field such as economics if they truly thought the governments were going to fail. in the dark age that would ensue being educated in a field such as some type of engineering would be much more valuable. hmmm. Last edited by TheFritz on May 30, 2012, 11:07:22 AM
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" No, the reason the US can't print money to get itself out of debt is because the amount of currency in circulation plays into the value of that currency. Printing trillions of new notes would devalue the currency such that the value of the new notes no longer covers the debt they were intended to pay back. This has nothing to do with conspiracy theories, it has everything to do with economics. "the premier Action RPG for hardcore gamers."
-GGG Happy hunting/fishing |
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" Agreed, but that kinda proves what I was saying. Essentially every time an item drops or an orb its like the game printing more money, the system banks on all those orbs then being used, which of course we all know they wont be. Hence it doesn't solve inflation or solve the gimped economy problem that ALL arpgs have. | |
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Actually they could print 15 trillion and pay back our debts, but that would introduce 15 trillion into the US dollar worldwide circulation, causing massive inflation and probably destroying commerce at home. It also screws with interest rates and a whole slew of other things.
One of THE primary methods considered to pay back debt is to print some money... say 1 trillion. Then the debt is worth 10% less and easier to pay. Talk of the US economy should cease though.. none of us are economists and it has no bearing on this discussion AND many of the 'facts' being thrown around are simply wrong. If you have account problems please [url="http://www.pathofexile.com/support"]Email Support[/url]
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Thanks for this interesting read, it has cleared some doubts.
These orbs are a good leap forward in my opinion. I would like crafting or recipies to be more clearly explained, in a tome ingame. Like if I make an item it will be scribed in the tome. And easier experimentation. When on lore subject, in d1, the mobs special abilitys were revealed after slaying some. I always thought that was a good idea, although it was reset everytime a new game started. It could be built on. When encountering same type mob you could see what abilitys that type has after a while of fighting it. Then when encountering a more difficult variety, the common abilitys are displayed, but the new ones must be learned. So to know all abilitys on all kinds of monsters, on all difficulties, you'd have to kill a bunch first, for fun.. Thanks alot for making this game, I'd get the purple bird.. But even if I had the cash, I wouldn't be allowed to spend it on a game, even though I'm pretty crazed about this..! |
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In a world without rulers and laws, gold as a currency makes no sense. In such a wild and bleak world, the currency will naturally form from utility items.
In the real world, trading with utility items is cumbersome and highly inefficient. In a computer game, on the other hand, utility items can - by device - stack infinitely in the stash, making them just as accessible as gold with the added advantage that they are useful in their own right, make more sense in the game universe and give the players more things to excel at. A totally transparent and accessible trading system - with a single currency and global auction house or grand exchange - totally does away the social aspects of the game. It reduces the game to grinding mobs. An online game only becomes all that it can be when players, with no help from the game, must form social networks to facilitate trade, share items and knowledge. In Diablo 2, the end game consisted of social networking. In Runescape - up until the Grand Exchange was launched - the end game consisted of social networking. In WoW the end game consists of grinding raids and browsing the auction house. In Diablo 3 the end game consists of grinding mobs and browsing the auction house. For an online game to have long life, it must have a very strong social aspect to it. WoW succeeds by requiring large groups of players for the final raids but it fails to incorporate what players truly value in the end: trading, bartering, scamming and sharing. Diablo 3 has none of these virtues and thus no lasting appeal what so ever. |
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" Firstly thats a massive over simplification of those games you listed, and makes huge assumptions about the merits/flaws of each system. Secondly I have never looked in the auction house on D3, am I doing it wrong? lol The orb system is no different at all to a gold system with gold sinks. For example D3 has the crafter, jeweller and stash space these eat up considerable chunks of cash to use/upgrade, so they keep gold levels low. I have yet never been flooded with gold like I was in D2. A well implemented gold system has no more drawbacks than the orbs. All that will happen is the orbs will become like gold. Some will be worthless, some will be the ones everyone wants. I dont see a difference. The social aspect of trading is more to do with the AH which is a seperate issue entirely and nothing to do with gold/orbs. I also suspect you might be dissapointed cause at some stage I almost guarantee that POE will have some form of AH or board to post trades on, if a game like this becomes successful, even moderately, its ludicrous to expect all trading to be done by spamming chat with linked items. If there were say 250,000 players (which isn't even that many) it would mean nothing ever got sold and most people would just ignore chat to avoid item spam. AHs are a necessary evil in a large successful game that allows trading/selling. I personally never buy any loot period in loot games though, it defeats the object entirely imho | |
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The issue D2 had with gold was it nearly served no purpose, though I did find myself trading an HR for a large sum for repair funds, but that was about it.
PoE given its design introduces Orbs in a way to sink them directly into the economy including upgrading orbs, or converting gear into higher orbs, most of the medium/high rarity orbs are craftable in one way or another, up to regal (I think). Gold just doesn't craft items which is the mechanic missing from D2, besides fitting out high end armour with runes and crossing your fingers, where orb system allows for some leniency with the chance of getting what you want. Though only major orb I think that is missing up near divine level of rareness is a undo orb that undoes the last modification made, 100%, would be a invaluable orb for crafting for exalted. |
