2h melee needs to be revisited...

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sidtherat wrote:

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TemjinGold wrote:

They should. And if you have a lot of investment, you have a ton of damage and will kill them quickly. They should not however be stationary statues who cannot fight back at all from the start of the fight.

that functionally doesnt differ from 'ignite once and run in circles for 3 seconds until boss is dead' playstyle, nor from 'minions do the job for me anyway' etc etc

The difference is the boss gets to move and attack/cast during those 3 seconds. Whether the boss hits you or not is irrelevant. You as the player are actively engaged in the boss fight (evading hits). If permastun or permafreeze was allowed, you as the player can stand still and not even look at the screen.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to stun bosses, you should be. And in fact, I'm saying you should be able to stun them better than it's implemented now (more stun investment means essentially less downtime on your stunning).

most bosses in POE are 100% harmless once you are far enough away from them. there is no functional difference. ive been cheezing bosses, maps and endgame, this way for 3 days straight.

jump up to the boss, ignite, buff, run away. there is no f.. danger nor interaction. actually stunning is more dangerous because of inevitable area degens that all new bosses have

i understand fear of perma-stunning (but if you do not know - you can perma-FREEZE most bosses right now and noone cares) but alternatives (mostly proxy/ranged DoT) are even more degenerative and yet widely accepted as 'legit, smart playstyle'

discussion is moot anyway because literally noone gives a quack about melee and stun anyway, including GGG

You cannot permafreeze the end bosses. I'm not talking about map bosses. I'm talking about Elder/Shaper/Sirus/Maven/etc. These are also the same bosses you cannot permastun. I am specifically arguing to allow investment into having less downtime in stunning versus these specific category of bosses.

If you are talking about crappy normal map bosses, yes you can stun lock and freeze lock those bosses already.

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TemjinGold wrote:

You cannot permafreeze the end bosses. I'm not talking about map bosses. I'm talking about Elder/Shaper/Sirus/Maven/etc. These are also the same bosses you cannot permastun. I am specifically arguing to allow investment into having less downtime in stunning versus these specific category of bosses.

If you are talking about crappy normal map bosses, yes you can stun lock and freeze lock those bosses already.

I get you're trying to be reasonable, giving some solid suggestions about stun... but the point is melee is too far behind many other playstyles and mechanics.

I think if the focus is just to fix melee what they really need to do is make melee bases hit MUCH faster. Melee should not be "melee" and screen clear or offscreen. That's what ranged and spells do. Melee should be short range and a couple targets at a time so to make up for that, melee should have really high attack speed. There's no reason swinging a weapon should be the same attack speed as a bow (this doesn't even make sense in real life). I've ranted in the past about how attack speed for weapons seems arbitrary because a Despot Axe hits at roughly the same rate as a dagger.

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TemjinGold wrote:

I think if the focus is just to fix melee what they really need to do is make melee bases hit MUCH faster. Melee should not be "melee" and screen clear or offscreen. That's what ranged and spells do. Melee should be short range and a couple targets at a time so to make up for that, melee should have really high attack speed. There's no reason swinging a weapon should be the same attack speed as a bow (this doesn't even make sense in real life). I've ranted in the past about how attack speed for weapons seems arbitrary because a Despot Axe hits at roughly the same rate as a dagger.

Or maybe just buff defense mechanisms so players won't get one shotted even with 80 all res, fortify stacks, 30k armour and 7500 life

Edit: if melee would have better innate defense (buff to fortify), maybe it would encourage players to invest more in damage

That's much easier said than done because people will just take the buff and use it on non-melee characters. You can't cover every angle because people will figure some way to exploit it. Their attempt with the fortify changes shows that. That's why I suggest melee weapon base attack speed as it's something only melee can use (so no wands or rune daggers). Melee can then do the reverse and invest more into defense.

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TemjinGold wrote:

That's much easier said than done because people will just take the buff and use it on non-melee characters. You can't cover every angle because people will figure some way to exploit it. Their attempt with the fortify changes shows that. That's why I suggest melee weapon base attack speed as it's something only melee can use (so no wands or rune daggers). Melee can then do the reverse and invest more into defense.

Dunno, man. I kinda like hitting slow but hard playstyle, clearing all screen in a bloody pulp, but with the nerfs and current base damage the slow attack speed doesn't pay off

melee's problem is damage, damage and f.. damage. melee simply needs more passives to reach the same power as lets say summoners or self-casters. melee's nodes are simply weak per passive

350pdps weapon vs 2000dps lvl21 spell. it is trivial to scale starting from 2000. melee scaling is mostly %increases that very quickly reach diminishing returns. spells have more numerous vectors thus scaling slows down.. slower

open POB and try to make 250k Cameria Avarice 1-Linked Glacial Hammer build with 60/60 block as a Gladiator

it is a pointless challenge but youll see just how hard it is to get to 'enough' damage and how difficult it is to gear when all depends on your weapon because other slots hardly contribute (9-15 base flat phys.. lol)

Yes, you pretty much nailed it. Melee passives could really use a buff