Spelltotem - the unwanted child ?

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Impiousbe wrote:

There are hundreds of builds that aren't exactly viable on SSF because they are gated behind specific uniques. Especially 6 linked uniques. I can't argue that spell totems are a lot harder to pull off on SSF.

The issue here isn't spell totems per se. I think they are fine and can be made to work rather cheaply in any trade league. The issue imo is that SSF as a game mode isn't very casual player friendly.

Don't get me wrong, mad respect for playing SSF, but I don't think it a game mode for a casual player and that is true for any build, not just spell totems.

For reference, I own a 6 linked perfect self found soul mantle that I found, divined and linked myself. When I get a corruption altar I will see If I can get a good corruption on it. It is possible but only if you play enough.

I agree that as a casual player you will have a hard time playing a spell totem build on SSF. I think however that that is true for most builds.

Yes if you are both SSF and casual most build will not be "good" or just impossible because a unique is needed.

But then here why play ssf if you really are casual about the game i guess if you play with a really limited time even trade league is an "acceptable challenge".

Else just grind more and soul mantle is really easy to get heist unique reward or some body armour beast and you'll have it so it's no real problem tbh

As it has been said, there are many builds that are not a whole lot of fun in SSF without unusual time investment. It is just the nature of the beast. To add to it, SSF gets about as much thought as console does. Why? Because they were the afterthought, and will likely always be a second to softcore trade leagues on PC (...and now Mac, but I wont get started on that).

As far as spell totems builds, they have always been some of my favorite builds to play, however, I do have to admit, I have not played one since Betrayal (I think).

Some of the changes to Soul Mantle and Hiero turned me off of it a bit. Since I have not played it recently, my opinion would be moot. Maybe I need to give them another run for shits and giggles.

@SqueakyToyOfTerror

exactly the same feeling here. No more real usage for hierophant as a spelltotem player. The charge generation was canceld and the + minimum
charges are just a simple bonus now.
If you want to start with totem - without soulmantle - you are way better of now with elementalist.
And if you are in trade league, you are also better of with elementalist
+ Totem.

Hierophant got a real downgrade, and so does totems + hierophant...

and we are back at the topic.. Seems totem (+ hierophant) is not so wellcome anymore. .. for SSF-, SSFHC-players and people with less time or currency.

regards Arkon

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ArkonHC wrote:

@SqueakyToyOfTerror

exactly the same feeling here. No more real usage for hierophant as a spelltotem player. The charge generation was canceld and the + minimum
charges are just a simple bonus now.
If you want to start with totem - without soulmantle - you are way better of now with elementalist.
And if you are in trade league, you are also better of with elementalist
+ Totem.

Hierophant got a real downgrade, and so does totems + hierophant...

and we are back at the topic.. Seems totem (+ hierophant) is not so wellcome anymore. .. for SSF-, SSFHC-players and people with less time or currency.

regards Arkon

That's because it's a lazy skill, you place the totem and it does all the work for you while allowing you to move about.

You're supposed to selfcast things, and stop and cast, stop and cast, stop and cast. Making a lazy crutch like totems weaker than selfcast is the whole point.

@ crunkatog

it thats true, what you said, why are so few totem builds in hc or sc trade-league. If it is soo easy and cheap.

If you take a look at this

https://www.pathofexile.com/private-leagues/league/Ziz+x+Shopify+Gauntlet+SSFHC

you will find no totem builds. Where are those lazy hide behind totem builds? I cant find them.

You cant hide behind a totem build in restricted space boss fights. The game AI does difference between spell totem and player aggro.

decoy totem is something different, but you can only have one, with second wind two for a shorter time.

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Impiousbe wrote:

There are hundreds of builds that aren't exactly viable on SSF because they are gated behind specific uniques. Especially 6 linked uniques. I can't argue that spell totems are a lot harder to pull off on SSF.

The issue here isn't spell totems per se. I think they are fine and can be made to work rather cheaply in any trade league. The issue imo is that SSF as a game mode isn't very casual player friendly.

Don't get me wrong, mad respect for playing SSF, but I don't think it a game mode for a casual player and that is true for any build, not just spell totems.

For reference, I own a 6 linked perfect self found soul mantle that I found, divined and linked myself. When I get a corruption altar I will see If I can get a good corruption on it. It is possible but only if you play enough.

I agree that as a casual player you will have a hard time playing a spell totem build on SSF. I think however that that is true for most builds.

Really Like what? Most top end uniques you can farm. HH is available is like 5 places though cards. Shavs like 3. There is always chances' for uniques that dont have cards...and you may have to farm ones strictly through bosses...specific, 2-3 useful stat watchers eyes are a bit problematic but those dont make or break any build. The idea you need trade to build anything is a myth. Time, on the other hand...need lots of it.

agree abt casual. I'm casual and play SSF..lucky if I kill sirus 8 this season which is over halfway done. I killed 456 sirus but need some drops that have not dropped yet to really put wood into end game

I did drop a 6L soul mantel tho...you can tell because it has no quality maybe should respec

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Aim_Deep wrote:

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Impiousbe wrote:

There are hundreds of builds that aren't exactly viable on SSF because they are gated behind specific uniques. Especially 6 linked uniques. I can't argue that spell totems are a lot harder to pull off on SSF.

The issue here isn't spell totems per se. I think they are fine and can be made to work rather cheaply in any trade league. The issue imo is that SSF as a game mode isn't very casual player friendly.

Don't get me wrong, mad respect for playing SSF, but I don't think it a game mode for a casual player and that is true for any build, not just spell totems.

For reference, I own a 6 linked perfect self found soul mantle that I found, divined and linked myself. When I get a corruption altar I will see If I can get a good corruption on it. It is possible but only if you play enough.

I agree that as a casual player you will have a hard time playing a spell totem build on SSF. I think however that that is true for most builds.

Really Like what? Most top end uniques you can farm. HH is available is like 5 places though cards. Shavs like 3. There is always chances' for uniques that dont have cards...and you may have to farm ones strictly through bosses...specific, 2-3 useful stat watchers eyes are a bit problematic but those dont make or break any build. The idea you need trade to build anything is a myth. Time, on the other hand...need lots of it.

agree abt casual. I'm casual and play SSF..lucky if I kill sirus 8 this season which is over halfway done. I killed 456 sirus but need some drops that have not dropped yet to really put wood into end game

I did drop a 6L soul mantel tho...you can tell because it has no quality

maybe should respec

Yeah that is kind of my point. Sure if you can play enough nothing is strictly impossible but in the context of a normal or casual player lots of builds just aren't realistic in SSF. Obviously if you play enough you can do almost everything but that isn't the reality for most of the playerbase.

Due to lockdown I have played as much POE this league as I will ever be able to without taking a vacation or quitting my job. It is almost impossible for me to play more without putting a dent in my career. Basically the max that a casual can expect to play and I don't think I could pull off most of the more creative builds that require a lot of moving parts to fit together from what I have gathered.

That being said I do think I could do one specific build if I target the gear for it from the beginning but it would take most of the league. It's a different beast that doesn't really go hand in hand with casual play unfortunately.

If you have a viridi's veil I can 100% recommend a spell totem build with Soul Mantle btw.

I have not done the maven yet either. Like you I am relegated to other things....work business wife kids other hobbies...I wish I could nolife it like in HS again. Anyway takes me whole season to build a complete toon...3 months is perfect @10 hrs week ssf... i done it many times hit about 97/98 and do all content. I got my end game build ha;fway complete just need crusader chest lvl 85 to switch. Check out this staff I made.


Trade doesnt even do me any good because they dont allow off line trading. When I'm online no way I want to deal with people. I'm there to play and have fun. Nothing fun about trading it's like work.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

I have not done the maven yet either. Like you I am relegated to other things....work business wife kids other hobbies...I wish I could nolife it like in HS again. Anyway takes me whole season to build a complete toon...3 months is perfect @10 hrs week ssf... i done it many times hit about 97/98 and do all content. I got my end game build ha;fway complete just need crusader chest lvl 85 to switch. Check out this staff I made.

Trade doesnt even do me any good because they dont allow off line trading. When I'm online no way I want to deal with people. I'm there to play and have fun. Nothing fun about trading it's like work.

I do really respect those that devote to SSF... Personally have far less time than I'd like to play, and even with trade it takes some time to properly gear one toon.

But on the topic. Regarding Soul Mantle and it beeing BIS for nowadays totem builds... Well, it IS without argue the best totem item right now, giving a 7th link, but by no means does it imply that builds not using it are doomed to fail.

It can prove to be harder maybe, with less dps than it could reach, but non-Sould Mantle builds are still very viable, and capable of tickling the hardest content. Myself am running such a build, and have done many of the hardest encounters with success.

So the statement "Every totem-build guide expects soulmantle as a mandatory item" is just that they don't bother to explore other ways, and stick to the easiest.

Agree.

+180 increased damage, +1 link, +1 totem, +50 totem life are way too huge.

The problem is it takes body armour and two rings slot, so one face the dilemma of choosing between damage and survivability. You can say "you already have survivability - just place the totems and run circles avoiding hits" and I'll answer that I already can to do the same with any other skill or support by using Decoy totems linked with Second Wind and Multiple Totems - all I need is 3 linked sockets and enough Str.