The reason why harvest is not as bad as you think

i just wish to see more often harvest with REAL crafts not shitty reforge trash...

tl;dr;
pretty good chest in 3.12(compared to other players) 50ex
pretty good chest in 3.13 300ish ex
=> Either your miror things(wich is imho the wtg at a point for non influenced gear) or it is a freaking slot machine game at a point.

I think that the high end has power creeped tremendously in 3.13 and that good yellows are even harder to come by now on average. Yes you have easier time getting a char that would be considered godly in 3.12 but it is nowhere near the ceiling right now. You can get absurd things deterministically like tailwind + elusive(augmented both) high move speed high life boots but another guy can even go beyond that and gamble his boots toward augmented pierce and augmented onslaugh and on a sparker it would change everything... You can fucking have 50% avoid ele ailments AND a more damage multiplier on helmet and it is imho not even busted because it is a tradeoff if your build can use the busted new pseudo links affixes...

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Aim_Deep wrote:

How much more deterministic do you need than OG masters let alone OP Jun? You want 6T1 deterministic and that should never happen because it makes drops useless. Never a wow factor or any sense of discovery. Paint by numbers indeed.

drops are useless nowadays it's true. What you do now, for a lvl80,90 char (or will if you are a slow learner) is to buy a base, for weapons a synthesis one, the best you can afford, for me I stoped at +1 bow for my selfcurse for example but it could have been way better, then if it is a synthesis item you fossil craft or essence spam until you get what you want. If it is a wep you can even do the fracture game if you want a hard to craft affix like +2 arrows on bows, it's less expensive than buying a good synthesis base btw. Through random harvest common recipes you can get explody or whatever without a single chaos or alt, then basically you end up with extremly good 2+ influenced mods torso(like explody + frenzy on hit) high life for less than 10ex investment. It applies to every piece of gear, even good incursion mods are meh now, a GG high life 140res eleron mod ring struggles to get sold. I stoped using id scrolls this league during day 1.

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galuf wrote:

tl;dr;
pretty good chest in 3.12(compared to other players) 50ex
pretty good chest in 3.13 300ish ex

lol

The item drops X crafting problem was not introduced by harvest thou.

We can argue that even back in beta crafting was already "better" than dropping items. Essences increased the gap a little, fossils increased the gap even further and in the end influenced items made all non-influenced gear obsolete.

PoE has a severe QoL problems and RNG-layers that make dropped items unlikely to ever feel good:]

1- Your inventory space is really small;

2- You need to identify items individually;

3- Stopping to loot/interact with any UI means dying in today poe;

4- You needs the right ilvl;

5- You need to drop the right item type;

6- You need to drop the right base;

7- It has to have the right influence;

8- It has to roll the correct affixes(and POE has a huge number of possible affixes);

9- It has to roll the correct affix-tiers;

10- Certain affixes can only be obtained with fossils, essences or double-influences, which doesn't drop at all.

11- Trade problems;

So how do you fix it? Some suggestions would be:

1- Making so dropped rares can roll elevated mods (similar to maven, but applies to all affixes).

2- Increasing the inventory size at least by 5x. (so you pick things and verify every 4/5 maps if you picked anything good).

3- Identify on pick-up;

4- Making so high tier content can only drop high tier bases;

5- Play SSF;


For the harvest problem, the best way is simple making harvest crafting a core content instead of a side content, so it doesn't have to compete with other things.

Something along the lines:

1- All contents drops seeds (fire monsters drops fire seeds, cold monsters drops cold seeds, etc), these seeds have the crafts harvest has (augments, annuls, replaces, reforges, etc).

2- You can incubate the seeds on the item you want to modify, and as long that item is in your inventory every monster kill will fill it. (this goes along with the famous PoE "item weight" which GGG loves for some reason (even thou i hate it). If filling the inventory with your crafts is too bad, we can make a special "harvest bench" where you place up to "n" incubating gear.

3- Once the seeds collects enough whatever, it blooms and the corresponding craft occurs in the item.

What this does is limiting "offline" trading/crafting (since you will still need to play a lot to bloom the seeds and create your "mirror-tier items"), keeping a more deterministic craft in the game (that is capped by playing the game instead of living on a discord) and since all content drops the seeds, it removes the FOMO of people that want to play other content that is not harvest.

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galuf wrote:

tl;dr;
pretty good chest in 3.12(compared to other players) free
pretty good chest in 3.13 50ish ex
=> Either your miror things(wich is imho the wtg at a point for non influenced gear) or it is a freaking slot machine game at a point.

Fixed that for you pal. Your idea of "pretty good" is quite something. Your original price check of a 300ex chest is a chest that is very close to mirror tier... because at that price range you're not far off from buying a mirror and copying an item unless that's what you're saying lol.

Also... did you mean 3.11 and 3.12? The price of a good chest didn't really go up this league.

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TreeOfDead wrote:

i just wish to see more often harvest with REAL crafts not shitty reforge trash...

Me too, this "mirror tier gear printing" appears to me to be a narrative thats only accurate in describing some very small subset of the playerbase.

I played 6 hours yesterday all in T14/15 maps, played every Hamlet map I had and saw no harvests at all.

Yesterday I had two harvests with only chaos spams.

I have give or take found about 4-5 targeted augs and about 2 targeted Anuls with a more or less completely filled out atlas, yes if I have 12 hours a day Harvest would be pretty damn powerful...

But how reasonable is it for GGG to balance around people who have 12 hours a day to play? How much money do those players have to spend on games?

The entire history of POE describes an arc of GGG realizing they can be less and less stingy with RNG and allow more and more "agency" for the players while the game actually GROWS AND BECOMES BIGGER LEAGUE AFTER LEAGUE.

The game is not getting bigger because its keeping the Week 2 HH crowd happy by making it take 3 weeks... its getting bigger because its FULL OF CONTENT AND HYPE FOR NEW STUFF TO DO and most players can't even do it all in 3 months let alone get a HH in week 2.

Stop balancing around week 2 HH, you maybe make them take an extra day or two, meanwhile you make the content inaccessible for 99% of your paying customers.

I have never done serious crafting in POE despite having a deep understanding of it, because I've never had the .01% currency needed to do it. Harvest allows me for the first time to actually ENJOY ITEM PROGRESS that simple does not exist for most of the players without Harvest style crafts.

if they want to nerf some of the blocking and forcing strats or even make the top influenced mods not augmentable... Fine... but Harvest makes the game MORE COMPELLING TO PLAY.

^^^ Good post.

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alhazred70 wrote:

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TreeOfDead wrote:

i just wish to see more often harvest with REAL crafts not shitty reforge trash...

Me too, this "mirror tier gear printing" appears to me to be a narrative thats only accurate in describing some very small subset of the playerbase.

I played 6 hours yesterday all in T14/15 maps, played every Hamlet map I had and saw no harvests at all.

Yesterday I had two harvests with only chaos spams.

I have give or take found about 4-5 targeted augs and about 2 targeted Anuls with a more or less completely filled out atlas, yes if I have 12 hours a day Harvest would be pretty damn powerful...

Maybe you do something wrong like not using watchstones for harvest/zana, not picking uncharted passives for zana/watchstones or maybe bad luck. Yesterday i was having 31 options from Zana (3+ breach, legion, trials etc) and not one harvest sad. But i never get less than 1ex from 1 harvest with the most profitable being arond 14 ex (and i proc like 40+ harvest). But i was using all 4 watchsones 1 for higher tier and 3 other for additional crafting options (in time cost around 20ex). And as a middle tier player (in full weak i play like 10-15 hours) i absolutely love harvest since it allows me just farm harvest for money and doing any other content without thinking of currency and profit

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DoubleU wrote:

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MarloStanfield wrote:

It's like every similar discussion since closed beta - a bunch of people complaining because they can't do xyz/can't be bothered to do xyz/don't have time to do xyz/are too stupid to do xyz but are envious of the people who do it and think they shouldn't have it if they can't have it.

+1 summary.

yeah, quite ltierally too. when poe.trade first came on it was called poe.xyz and some people complained, endlessly, refused to use it, were massively upset that other people used it, 3rd party, unfair advantages, the game should be trade chat and official forum posts etc etc...



look, back when masters were added to the game morsexier, who was a big member of the streaming community and a person whos opinion i have a lot of respect for went on a rant about how masters essentially ruined the game. adding a mod should be by exalt only, 99% chance to brick your item every time, any sort of guaranteed mod on a rare item like that was an abomination that had completely destroyed the game.

thats his opinion and he was and still is welcome to it. and theres something in it, if you love poe you sort of love the pain to some extent, its like darksouls or hotsauce, if it doesnt kick you in the face its not working. we all different on how much pain we want. i like masters, i like harvest, the recent nerfs to how oftne we get the good mods, and i think they have been nerfed, were needed, and i would go further by removing all the chaos and alch crafts from harvests too. but i love harvest and if its poe with or without it then it has to be poe with harvest for me, if they just removed it completely it would be a tragedy imo.

If I spend 40ex making 2 elevated items to awaken together I want to be able to fix it if the roll is atrocious. Otherwise why would I even bother? I'll just go play a different game.