The reason why harvest is not as bad as you think

I don't mind good crafting opportunities to be rare, what I mind is obnoxiously obscure way everything goes in this game with crafting.

People who say it's easy to craft top-tier items have first done shitton of online research or some guides how to craft item X, and you won't stumble there experimenting on your own: all this sh*t about item levels, influences, affix blocking and whatnot is just an intentional obfuscation of how to actually craft anything in a game that seems to be about obfuscating everything intentionally.

It's not fun. I mean, Harvest is great for bringing players some cool options. But even those cool options are usually obscure unless you are already googling it up, and you are googling up everything about this game if you want to achieve anything in it.

There are databases for f*cking oils, mind you. And every new mechanic they add also requires a new database to cover it. I'd honestly much better prefer 'recipes' (not just recipes as is, what I mean is actual, tangible combination instructions) having as in-game drops and giving specific how-to -instructions like alchemy. Even if vets didn't need it because they already read all of it online, newer gamers and those who despise databases could welcome actual information as a reward for playing the goddamn game. There was (and is) a cool little arpg game called 'Crossfire' which I used to play. There you could drop actual scrolls with an alchemical recipe written in them, and you'd gather ingredients yourself. I loved gathering recipes themselves and putting them in a bookshelf in my cabin, I could always return studying them when I needed to remember something. With PoE player is doing his occultist studies via internet wikis or streamer videos. That's a terrible design for rpg crafting if you ask me.

Harvest is great because:

1) people that never crafted are now crafting a shitload more
2) people are now sinking s shitload more other currency into crafting because, well, they are now crafting
3) discord is totally fine as it is another means to interact with people in and outside POE. It literally takes 30secs to use discord... There is no issue.

The economy is fucking thriving now BECAUSE of harvest and because your average Joe is now crafting like crazy... This is exactly what POE was meant to be from the start... People CRAFTING gear and there is so much currency sink now it's nuts.

I forgot to add on my previous post: it's not that secret information in game can't be a fun aspect, as my example with Crossfire tried to demonstrate. It's that if GGG wants to put little secrets in the game (as they have done with all the minigames) unlocking them shouldn't be a tedious internet search process but something you have fun discovering in the game. In Crossfire, it was such an enjoyable moment when you found a secret passage and a scroll at the end, you had lore and maybe even a usable recipe on 'how to craft X'. Then again, if they want to stay true to being a hack and slash rpg, they shouldn't add minigames ad infinitum. I really wish there was some soul-searching with it, because sure PoE can be a fun either way but not if you make it a f*cking browser-tab-game as it is now.

I think that Harvest is bad because it makes crafting accessible.

EDIT:

To expand on that, the game will be balanced around Harvest crafts being an option, thus other methods of crafting will fall further behind as mod rates/tags/pools get tweaked and the new content will require more character power coming from gear.

As long as Harvest crafts remain tradeable, gradual gear upgrades will not be a thing, not that they were that major a thing in PoE lately, but instead of going through a couple items in a slot, you'll be going from your league starting items, to regular currency farming/mapping items, to pretty much best-in-slot items, as items will be easily decomposable into the price of their component crafts. Pre-Harvest, if you're trying to roll something to use or to sell, you would often hit something that falls short of your ideal goals but is still usable/sellable enough that it's worth to move on to the next base for your project, in a post-Harvest world no one has a reason to stop short of perfection, thus removing those mid-roll items from circulation. Before Harvest, composing an item piecemeal of separately selected mods was usually prohibitively expensive thus many, many items were rolled whole (a good fossil craft roll, awakener orb slams etc). Harvest raises the floor of what can be considered a good craft too close to the ceiling of what's possible. It'll take more than just Maven's Orb to change that.

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Char1983 wrote:

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teknik1200 wrote:

In game people love harvest, I've only seen any naysayers here on the forum. I feel it's only a vocal minority complaining about it.

I won't complain about Harvest as a concept, at all. It is a great concept, Harvest was - by a long shot - my favourite league.

However, I will complain about the current implementation, which is really lackluster. Especially, can anyone give me a logical explanation about why the Horticrafting storage limit is 10? And no, it can't be that it would otherwise be too powerful, because you can 100% bypass that limitation by using TFT trade. It mostly affects you when you don't trade your Harvest crafts.

Because if there was no limit to craft you can easily buy like 10 r/a life or more in one go and guarantee yourself t1 life (just an example) sure not all crafts require large quantities but most craft are more useful if you have more attempts to craft perfect t1 or even t2 sometimes

None of your points have anything to do with why I hate it. I play SSF couldnt care less about others or economic effects. How about it pigonholes you into all-hamlet-all-the-time cuz it's miles above anything else? Even Jun's OP mods suck by comparison but of course you need her tedious ass to harvest craft efficiently. Playing 1/10th of the game is pretty lame.

How about all uniques and rares are leveling gear now. HH is about all thats better but it don't drop, it's farmed, so all drops are essentially useless. No such thing as - "wow look what I found" factor anymore. It's simply can how many harvests you can find with an item editor in game. I play Neversink uber strict item filter and it's not strict enough with an item editor in game.

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Desrers wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

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teknik1200 wrote:

In game people love harvest, I've only seen any naysayers here on the forum. I feel it's only a vocal minority complaining about it.

I won't complain about Harvest as a concept, at all. It is a great concept, Harvest was - by a long shot - my favourite league.

However, I will complain about the current implementation, which is really lackluster. Especially, can anyone give me a logical explanation about why the Horticrafting storage limit is 10? And no, it can't be that it would otherwise be too powerful, because you can 100% bypass that limitation by using TFT trade. It mostly affects you when you don't trade your Harvest crafts.

Because if there was no limit to craft you can easily buy like 10 r/a life or more in one go and guarantee yourself t1 life (just an example) sure not all crafts require large quantities but most craft are more useful if you have more attempts to craft perfect t1 or even t2 sometimes

Sure, it would be less tedious to do TFT without a limit. A bit less tedious (not many people can stock up 10 r/a life crafts to start with, I've never seen one so far).

But assume you are not TFTing. It makes certain things straight up impossible, or you have to delete crafts. I guess we agree that the impact is a lot bigger if you are not TFTing than if you are, right?

And that is strange. If GGG wants people to trade Harvests, they should provide means to do so other than TFT. If GGG intends for people not to trade Harvests, they shouldn't introduce mechanics that hurt the intended use, while affecting TFT trading a lot less.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

None of your points have anything to do with why I hate it. I play SSF couldnt care less about others or economic effects.

Seriously, if you don't like it, and you don't care about others - what is preventing you from simply not using it? I really don't get it. Why don't you just ignore it? You are playing SSF, for f*s sake. It is your game, it is your choice, you can have the game you want - without Harvest. No problem, or am I overlooking something?

Why would you play something you don't like? I can see the argument in trade league, somewhat, but SSF...?

Harvest: One of the best things that's happened to the game in a long time.

TFT: A tumor that's only going to get more malignant over time until the source is surgically removed.

I don't care what nerfs it would take to make harvest tradeable, but whatever they are, they need to happen.

If any of you have ever read into the leadership side of TFT you'll quickly realise it's run by a Capone style prohibition-esque cartel of individuals who regularly do shady shit on the side and are quickly becoming "Too big to fail".

The sheer audacity with which they blazenly exclaim "WE ARE THE BEST." and "NOBODY SHOULD EVER COME TO A DISCORD SERVER FOR POE RELATED SERVICES OTHER THAN OURS." is sickening. They go as far as to ban people simply for being on anything that might be considered a rival server, regardless of whether or not it's ever talked about on TFT.

Not to mention that with TFT being the sole place where harvest is traded and with their new direct link to better poe trade, the leadership there can, on a whim, completely blacklist someone from ever using a related service with absolutely no evidence.

In conclusion, once again harvest as a concept is good.

Harvest as fuel for a cesspit like TFT is BAD.

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Char1983 wrote:

Sure, it would be less tedious to do TFT without a limit. A bit less tedious (not many people can stock up 10 r/a life crafts to start with, I've never seen one so far).

But assume you are not TFTing. It makes certain things straight up impossible, or you have to delete crafts. I guess we agree that the impact is a lot bigger if you are not TFTing than if you are, right?

And that is strange. If GGG wants people to trade Harvests, they should provide means to do so other than TFT. If GGG intends for people not to trade Harvests, they shouldn't introduce mechanics that hurt the intended use, while affecting TFT trading a lot less.

The biggest number of the same crafts i see in this league was 6 (reforge keep pref) the most i saved was 4 (div gamble), in harvest thou even i was ended up having almost full tab with r/a phys and many people was selling crafts but dosens and hundreds. Without using TFT and with 10 crafts limit it will be really hard to creft something you want, more luck than skill.