Ways that PoE is like D2 (plus hopefully thoughtful analysis)
|
Solid combat/skill mechanics (which I think PoE does have) only get you so far. I'm one of those players that likes story as much as adding another level to my skills or character. A well-written story is just as important as gameplay, and I don't just mean the main story.
So far I've just started Act II and until I lift up the hood and open my passive tree or consider my skill gems, I keep coming back to to a single feeling: this is a lot like Diablo II. It's not a bad thing per se, but while GGG's creativity shines in certain areas, I am left wanting more in others. I will only mention instances where I dislike the similarity, not where I don't care or where I appreciate it. Some examples where D2 can be seen through PoE's facade: 1.0 Side-quests mean very little except a ticket to goodies -1.1 Improve by tying them into the story more such as the captain promising to get you off this rock if you bring his Allflame (I think it was called), then he takes you on his boat and casts you overboard so you wash up on a beach AGAIN and you explore to find a raft that ends up floating you back to the original beach. I'd laugh at my luck. Bonus points if the captain's response was random. Maybe he tosses you off his ship, maybe he attacks you before you ever get on. Who knows? 2.0 The greater wilderness is inhabited almost exclusively by monsters - barely any NPCs -2.1 Improve this by having little outposts or campsites that have 1 or several people fighting to survive out there and want your help. One of them offers a quest to help reclaim his homestead and actually comes with you and helps, and settles back in there if you succeed. Again, make this random so you never really know what to expect on a given playthrough. 3.0 Inventory is small but loot is abundant -3.1 Make me forget the small inventory by giving me another row of inventory slots every X strength or by elements on the passive skill grid. I can choose to have more inventory space at the expense of something else, so the pain of limited inventory space can be assuaged. -3.2 Alternatively, add the ability to salvage items so they aren't just left behind. This way you can have junk drop but still get something out of it. 4.0 Inventory management is a pain. Too much dragging and dropping. -4.1 Make this more natural like an auto-sort button that has a few different algorithms it cycles through to maximize horizontal slots, vertical slots, or maximizes 2-row or 2-column blocks like 2x3 or 4x2. -4.2 Transfer items to stash or equip them by double-clicking. 5.0 Brutus felt like the Smith in D2 6.0 Merveil (sp?) felt like Andariel in D2, boobs and all. Those Act I bosses are awefully similar! For me, the creativity of the skill and support gem system is just amazing. That alone convinced me to try PoE. It's unexpected surprises that really make an RPG fun for me, and I can't wait to see what happens next! P.S. Please don't flame. If I have my facts wrong or you have a strong counter-argument against any of my ideas, then please tell me. I'm not so proud as to think I'm never wrong or that I have all pertinent information, so please convince me if you have a strong case rather than resorting to personal attacks. The R&D Monkey is testing your patience... Last edited by RnDMonkey on May 3, 2012, 8:23:07 PM
| |
|
This sounds like my kind of game.
|
|
|
This deserves measured consideration. here we go.
" I don't really agree with this particular example but the overall gist of what you're saying is true enough. It has been discussed elsewhere that quests should feel a bit more linked narratively. I concur. " That's a pretty ambitious addition to the game at this point but it's a good idea. Another idea that has been thrown around is not one from D2 but D1: random quests picked from a pool thereof, different each game. But with instances respawning as quickly as 15 minutes, that sort of persistency could be difficult to pull off. " Salvaging items is something I liked in Guild Wars 1 and Diablo 3. Quite a lot, actually. But the limited inventory space is only a problem early on, when you feel the need to pick up everything -- and should, white items trade for wisdom scrolls at five apiece in town. Frequent trips to town are inevitable, and I'd rather have a small inventory to deal with when I get there than a large one. Sacred 2 had a huge inventory and item management was a total pain. Also, limited inventory reminds you to be selective. This is Wraeclast, where the idea is you keep what you use and get rid of the rest. And by 'get rid of', I naturally mean 'stash', heh. It also represents encumbrance. Just how many suits of armour can you carry around and still swing a sword or shoot a bow, hm? Let alone that poor little Witch with her twiggy legs and tiny arms...! " I'd have no problem with either suggestion, but since the inventory is so small (didn't you just say so?), managing it isn't that much of a pain. Sacred 2, again, had an auto-sort button, and was still a hassle to deal with item-wise. " Yeah. And the Smith felt a bit like the Butcher from D1. " Really? Boobs aside, Andariel and Merveil function quite differently to me. Andariel was all about extremely powerful poison draining your life combined with projectiles. Merveil freezes you and then swipes away with two big swords. She also has two forms, the latter being more about minions and dealing less damage. I don't think you really did look past the boobs there. Also, I find the idea of a siren lurking in the caves along the shore much more plausible and organic than that of a Lesser Evil spider demon bitch in a monastery... All in all, you've made some good points, but not too many new ones. I know, it's a huge forum to search to make sure, and I'm sure a lot of what I've posted is repeating someone else as well... Warhammer 40k Inquisitor: where shotgunning is not only not nerfed, it is deeply encouraged.
Dogma > Souls, but they're masterworks all. You can't go wrong. I was right about PoE2 needing to be a separate, new game. It was really obvious. |
|
" I rarely do. It's like brain freeze. Thank you for your thoughtful response, and your points are well taken. TBH I'd take 1 response with some structure than fifty +1's. The R&D Monkey is testing your patience...
| |
" Actually they did say how that bad ass siren queen got there and started making babies. haha No food in fridge... Beer it is.
| |
" I know this has been covered in other threads but I definitely agree with inventory still being an area for improvment compared to other ARPG games. I think trips to town, especially in the early game, are one of those things that could use tuning to be a tad less frequent. No huge changes needed but picking one of the following might help: 1. Auto-sort button 2. Two more columns or one more row (adding a row would probably be too strong of a correction) 3. Reduce the size of some weapons to 1x3 rather than 2x3 (i.e. some swords or maces) 4. Make a separate inventory for orbs. This one is really annoying aside from general inventory management/space, because I for one end up putting them in the stash and then not having them on me for vendor purchases. Last edited by karoc on May 4, 2012, 2:18:17 AM
| |
|
You get what you give, Monkey, and I agree 100% that one longer response is worth a whole swag of +1s. You made a great post and it deserved effort in responding. Sometimes life is that simple to me. :)
The Butcher/Smith/Warden issue has bugged me before but I can rationalise it as an homage more than an outright 'theft' of an idea. The Prison itself is a pretty cool set of levels -- the Warden's Quarters give us more gore and ick than...well, the Butcher's Room in D1, I think. So it's not like this ButcherSmith-alike just popped out of nowhere in a random level. He is, at the core of things, a fairly well-explained version of a 'recurring element' in the ARPG genre. If anything, I'd be much happier if Act 1 had a few more interesting sub-bosses like him. The Deep Dweller is sort of random, Hailrake just pisses you off and Fire Fury is, to me, a waste...why not make Hailrake and Fire Fury somehow related? They're clearly using opposite elements and they're both uniques, not just rare. Stuff like that can help tighten a game, because right now, once you look past the joy of PoE's tight gameplay and lootfest galore, the narrative flow is pretty loose. I try to show in my posts that I'm a huge fan of causality and things 'making sense' from one point to the next -- it was probably the hardest thing I had to learn regarding writing papers at a tertiary level, and yet once you figure it out, it's actually sort of easy to implement. Connecting the dots is the job of the writer, not the reader, whose job in turn is to negotiate that path as they will. I'm not talking hand-holding, just a nice a to b to c progression that gives just enough for the reader (or player, in this game) to go, 'aha, so that's why I'm doing this next.' ...In short, I think it's not that hard to make things make sense as a whole. To connect the dots without obscuring them with the path created. Warhammer 40k Inquisitor: where shotgunning is not only not nerfed, it is deeply encouraged.
Dogma > Souls, but they're masterworks all. You can't go wrong. I was right about PoE2 needing to be a separate, new game. It was really obvious. |
|
" Hmm odd I keep all my orbs in my stash as well and yet if I want to buy something from a vendor it just auto deducts the cost of orbs straight from my stash. Luke: Sorry we have to leave you here, but it just ain't right to eat your wife's and daughter's brains. Plus you're really disgusting and I don't want to spend anymore time with you.
| |
" I noticed this and praised it immediately, but it seems a little erratic. Sometimes the vendor recognises my orb stash, sometimes it doesn't. ...Odd. Warhammer 40k Inquisitor: where shotgunning is not only not nerfed, it is deeply encouraged.
Dogma > Souls, but they're masterworks all. You can't go wrong. I was right about PoE2 needing to be a separate, new game. It was really obvious. |
|
" No Ways that PoE is like D2. The pixels are different. Perm. Retired from this unforgiving land of the Exiles.
Self-impost EXILED. |
