Path of Exile is a real Devil -- here's why.

My last original-topic here was very obviously pro-PoE, and I used my former experiences as a Diablo veteran to frame the discussion as a face-off with what D3 is set to become.

I want to take the opposite side here, not to play Devil's advocate so much as to express why the choice I have made is not an easy one. This probably surprises a few of you: I'm a Diamond Supporter and then some, was probably the first in fact, and it seems I did it with virtually no thought or consideration.

But the truth of the matter is, I did. From the moment I found Path of Exile, I was conscious of how it planned to make money. It wasn't as obvious as the scheme of other companies, the details of which continue to be revealed and occasionally reviled, but it was a scheme.

People in Global Chat, in default/normal at least, often complain about how ugly their character looks. I cannot for the life of me understand these complaints. Don't they realise THAT is the plan? That what is being offered right now is not only a work-in-progress, it's also essentially an aesthetically questionable product. Do the models look ugly? Pretty much. They're exiles, desperate, starved I imagine. All that. You can explain it away if you want, but at a game level, they're quite unattractive.

...If they weren't, people like me wouldn't be so inclined to expect aesthetic upgrades in the cash shop. Like I said, anyone complaining about anything aesthetic in Path of Exile right now hasn't spent even ten seconds thinking about it.

Path of Exile will be free to play. Given. Granted. Accepted. Embraced.

It will, not, however, be free to look good. And that's where things get sticky. Some gamers really don't care about looking good, about graphics. They just play and enjoy it for what it is. That's fine, but if there's one thing I've learned about longer term play, it's that we like our darlings, our well-built characters, to stand out. To have shinies. We get attached to them. Usually, such can be achieved by finding new loot, and that will also be the case on PoE. But consider the aesthetic upgrades already being bandied about: spell/skill animations, particle effects on weapons, different (likely, higher quality) skins on models, costumes, dyes. All the things that traditionally (and almost irrationally) sell like hotcakes on MMOs. Why? Again -- one of the key factors to multiplayer is being different. I anticipate the day when Duelists can wear green shirts as well as red, and Witches can come with blonde hair as well as brown. When rangers can have ponytails and Templars, pants. When Marauders don't look like the lovechild of an Orc and Skrillex. By omitting all of these, GGG have set us all up, creating desire from nothing. Clever.

This all boils down to one fact: VANITY is Grinding Gears Games' pivot. We all know it, it's right there in writing, but the trick lies in how many people don't think it applies to them.

Another issue: stash tabs. The lack of respecs means that you WILL probably have multiple character slots filled by the same class -- the amusingly convoluted skill tree and exponential potential of skill gem+support combinations can only contribute to this. This means more stash tabs, not to mention the handiness of naming them based on content. Skill gems by colour, weapons and armour by type. More credits required, please insert coin(s) to continue.

And this is also why GGG are offering so many character slots per account. 24! So generous!...ah, but it gives you more dolls to dress, more children to feed and support. You don't really want your kids looking like their dad's on welfare and their mother's an alcoholic, do you? Clever clever.

Like I said, this won't apply to all players of PoE...but I think more will to succumb to it than the game's ARPG nature would suggest.

Let me return then to the query of just how free PoE really is. Free to play, yes, but if you're concerned about aesthetics, not entirely free to get 'up to speed' with a typical triple A title. By employing a model of purchasable aesthetic upgrades, PoE walks the line between ARPG and MMORPG. We don't expect much customisation of character model with an ARPG, indeed most offer none. Torchlight had none, Diablo 2 had none. Those that did offer it did so quite clumsily: Sacred 2 had skin and hair options, Titan Quest had gender selection regardless of class. When you talk about alternate models, hairstyles, dyes, all that, you're really pushing into the much more vain world of the MMORPG. Thus I must compare the overall cost of Path of Exile not to an ARPG but to an MMORPG, and I'm going to choose the 'cheapest' not-free MMO with what I find to be the highest level of aesthetic appeal, character-wise.

Guild Wars 2 will be roughly 60 bucks out of the box. For this price, you get five character slots, each of which offers two genders, five races, a height slider, over a dozen hairstyles and facial structures and tones, about twenty dyes to start with (customisable on the fly), and facial structure sliders galore.

Looking good in Gw2 is very, very cheap. Looking awesome will cost more: ArenaNet is offering costumes and special dyes in their cash shop as well. This is not the point at this point...what is, is how much you get for your 60 bucks.

Back to Path of Exile. Here, classes are essentially 'race', given that classes in GW2 don't actually change the character model. So we have six races in Path of Exile and none of the features listed above. For free.

It doesn't take a genius to note that to get all those features for five character slots in Path of Exile would likely cost more than $60, given that one character would have to cost $12 total to get height slider, over a dozen hairstyles, etc., etc.

And this understanding is part of why I figured that a thousand bucks down wasn't actually a waste of my money, because I clearly love Path of Exile; I plan to have somewhere between 10-15 characters and I'd be very happy to have every one of them looking good, looking different.

Without knowing the cost of future cash shop items, I obviously cannot calculate right now how much five characters will cost me in PoE to get them looking as relatively 'nice' as five Gw2 characters (within the constraints of graphics engine and other obvious factors). And I acknowledge they are totally different games, different genres even. But at the base line of 'looking good', it's not going to be cheap with Path of Exile. If looking good were my only concern with a game, Gw2 would be it. Period.

...But those canny bastards at GGG have made a seriously entertaining, compelling game, all aesthetics aside. They have earned my desire to pay quite a lot to look good while playing it.

I know for a fact I'll spend more on this game than I probably have any other, including that gorgeous trap Allods Online, including EverQuest, where I bought plat for my guild on eBay and that wasn't cheap either. I know I'll spend more on PoE's aesthetics than I ever would have buying actual useful items in That Other Game; that's just how I think. I refuse to buy in-game power -- it's an abuse of something that shouldn't impact the game, I feel -- but I'm all for buying in-game charm.

...And that's why Path of Exile is a real Devil.

Free to play, absolutely.

I don't think many people will be playing it for free.

And a lot of them will spend more on aesthetic, ethical micro-transactions than they ever would on any game straight out of the box.
Warhammer 40k Inquisitor: where shotgunning is not only not nerfed, it is deeply encouraged.

Dogma > Souls, but they're masterworks all. You can't go wrong.

I was right about PoE2 needing to be a separate, new game. It was really obvious.
Last edited by Foreverhappychan on May 2, 2012, 7:52:49 PM
You know I like and respect you (and appreciate...)

But...

"Duh?"

I mean, that's kind of how F2P with "ethical MTs" work these days.
itsalljustagame.wordpress.com - my blog about all things gaming - Current project - "Communal effort" - Game design by popular vote!
Totally. There is a constant undertone in what I said to that effect. What I wanted to point out is that the 'free to play' model is a pitfall for players not only regards to 'pay to win' (which has been discussed endlessly here, of course), but also in terms of 'pay to look good.' It's not commonly discussed because people don't want to admit they're vain.

Most gamers probably feel they're not.

I'm admitting I am.

And that Path of Exile is not going to be free in that respect. Worse, it's going to cost a lot more than other things that probably do it better.

...I think this is a valid criticism of a game that is very much aiming to be 'ethical'. Of course it's our choice to look good, or not, but it seems to me that Path of Exile is trying to fight a war on two fronts: ARPG and MMO, appealing to our desire to click shit to death real quick with the former, and our desire to look like cool action figures in the process with the latter.

I am saying that I think, just as an example, Gw2 does the latter better (and cheaper) and yes, Diablo 3 does the former better (and cheaper).

My main query then is can this war of two fronts be fought purely on the 'new' things Path of Exile brings to the table?

Clearly I've made my choice and my beliefs are to the positive, possibly foolishly so.

But I want to open a discussion that isn't raw D3 vs PoE and cuts a little deeper -- and this time I'm using the MMORPG-style cash stop that is being used in this free-to-play ARPG to do so.

Warhammer 40k Inquisitor: where shotgunning is not only not nerfed, it is deeply encouraged.

Dogma > Souls, but they're masterworks all. You can't go wrong.

I was right about PoE2 needing to be a separate, new game. It was really obvious.
Personally the ugliness is a selling feature to me, I'm sick of every hero being a super model running around saving the world in a metal bra and not much else. The fact that the characters aren't pretty and look like they have been through hell makes them more real to me and makes the world a darker place. Altho I would seriously add breast implants on one of my alt pvp rangers for shits and giggles.

One of my constant annoyances with D3 was every time I looked at my Demon Hunter running around in high heels I mentally stopped and went "really...heels in this mud, not a chance girlfriend"

Don't get me wrong I'm a total ego manic, but I base that on combat prowess rather than how good I would look in a swim suit (I look fucking awesome in a swim suit btw).
Winner of the First Ever Cut-Throat Server Test, and Winner of the First Ever Cut-Throat League Event!
Last edited by NotSorry on May 2, 2012, 9:21:57 PM
I know people think LoL is the devil these days, but I'm happy with them and their business model, and I've spent more on their MTs since release than on most of my recent game purchases (although less than $100)

So yes, people spend more on "f2p" games than on subs or box games. That's why Turbine (DDO/LotRO) went FTP, that's why LoL is huge, and so on and so on.
itsalljustagame.wordpress.com - my blog about all things gaming - Current project - "Communal effort" - Game design by popular vote!
I thought this was pretty obvious to everyone. GGG has to make money somehow, what better way than appealing to a persons’ vanity…. or jealousy.


In real life I am slightly narcissistic. However in video games I am much more so. If I see someone looking better than me I will want to catch them, beat them to a pulp then steal their items. GGG have made it much easier for me. If I see someone looking better than me, I will open up the cash shop, spend some money and look better than them.

Having said that I want individuality for my toons in game. I don’t want them looking the same as everybody else.

Currently I have 15 stash tabs. However I don’t see myself buying too many more. I will probably buy 5 or 6 named tabs and 1 clan tab.

Other cash shop items such as extra gore, alternate skins for minions, alternate spell effects, alternate death animations, taunts etc. are all high on my list of things to buy also.

First though I need to get my Diamond supporters pack to make my precious unique item
RIP Bolto
This is actually good service. Give the players a complete game (in terms of content and game play) for free and let them buy aesthetic modifications to make money.

It works now for other companies, it will work for GGG. I don't see any evil in this.

I can see how it can look bad compared to other games.

But then again, this one's completely free to play.
I like how the current characters look. They have so much more character and personality than other games. When I look at them, I'm interested in the character.

I don't think I'll spend very much to make my characters look better. Alternate animations and spell effects could pique my interest. I always thought that having pets in these games was stupid, but since I got my kiwi I've become very attached to it (I get upset when he gets stuck in the environment). There will definitely be something for everyone.
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I agree with your assessment and have hypothesized this was the main draw of the aesthetic cash shop in the future. While playing, I cannot help but notice how incredibly underwhelming my character appears. He looks as if he has a pot protecting his cranium and simply made his armour from straps and basic metal rather than having it properly forged. It is very "ugly" to say the least.

Much like the genius of the microtransaction in League of Legends, I think GGG knows the price people will pay to differentiate themselves and stand out loudly from the others surrounding them. You do not want to run into your clone five minutes in, but to feel as though you have a certain look, an edge if you will, that veterans recognize you by and new-comers gaze at you for.

It is a very popular practice to offer a sort of incentive. LoL has costumes for every champion, WoW has heroic/gladiator gear, etc. Those that plan to invest a lot of time will naturally be inclined to spend some currency to differentiate themselves from the usual crop. I don't think the horrible default look of characters/gear was a definitive negative working against the game, like you mentioned.

Yet, I actually adopted the rags/wildman look. In my view, it fits within the context of the game world where you feel banished and left to make due with your surroundings. It is quite immersive to me in that light.
Well, a lot of the anti-d3 rhetoric revolves around the fact that real money will be involved not only at the point of sale but of course throughout the course of your playtime, which may be weeks, may be years.

I also wanted to point out that what GGG is doing, and indeed many f2p MMOs do, is not entirely that different. At the heart of it, it is creating a desire in players to use real money to augment their gaming experience, not at a point of sale but afterwards.

Let us assume that Path of Exile was not free to play but instead cost $60 at launch. Instead of that being the cost, however, it's a sort of 'down payment' on store credit, which is actually what everyone who 'bought' a beta key did anyway, except they're going to lose all their characters and gear, effectively speaking, before too long. So the base cost of Path of Exile open beta/soft release is still 'free' but you have to use $60 worth of store credit from the get-go.

That's not going to buy you anywhere near enough aesthetic gear to justify the cost, if we are still looking at other games that are $60 out of the box by comparison.

There's no easy answer for this, because the lowest possible price point for most cash shop items would have to be ridiculously low to make it all worth it.

Of course, and I had a funny feeling it'd be NotSorry saying it, the rugged/ugly appearance of PoE chars is actually not necessarily a negative point. But it is a point against which GGG ultimately want you to rebel and work.

I want to make it very clear that I have nothing but admiration for this business model. What, haven't I said that enough? This is me looking at it from a different perspective, one perhaps more concerned with the accumulation of micro-transactions than would seem to befit my obvious 'advantage' in that regard.

I think that had someone who hadn't pre-purchased a significant amount of store credit made this point, the argument against them could have been 'well, you don't have to buy anything from the cash shop, idiot!' and it would have been a valid counter.

...But I do have a lot of store credit saved up. When I say I can see how it'll be used and that I'm not 100% sure there'll be much left before too long, that's pretty frightening.

A free to play game that makes no bones about the fact that you can spend a small fortune on it (instead of pretending everything is free, and then BAM! Looking at you, Gpotato...) is very much to be admired.

But it is also wise to be wary of it.
Warhammer 40k Inquisitor: where shotgunning is not only not nerfed, it is deeply encouraged.

Dogma > Souls, but they're masterworks all. You can't go wrong.

I was right about PoE2 needing to be a separate, new game. It was really obvious.

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