[0.10.4] Narutobieber's The Budget Strike Build(LS). Who says melee needs to be gear dependant.

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MaxMuscle wrote:

That makes sense, thanks for the advice. What do you think about removing some of the shield nodes and going with some mace damage nodes like Bone Smasher or Skull Cracking? I will most likely be using a high physical damage mace with elemental damage since it seems like the best weapon for a Templar with lightning strike.

Thats a possible option, however another option is putting points into strong arm near inner force in case you need more dps, that way you aren't pigeonholed into just using maces and can also use axes, another excellent weapon type for templars.

I however would recommend keeping all the shield talents if you don't have great gear with super high armor, because you'll need the survivability in later maps. Also shield block% scales better the more of it you have.

so will you respond to this?

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AlmightyPatman wrote:

Unfortunately it doesn't - the mechanics of LS is that that initial hit portion of LS is "Melee" but the projectiles are just that "projectiles" so they are not affected but melee phys dmg nodes, any str bonus or melee dmg gem (unfortunately - would be awesome ofc).

@the OP:

This is a nice looking build over all, but as a tank-focused build, there is one glaring omission: endurance charges! You are literally right next to two endurance charges. All you need is to spend 2x talent points and you're at 6 endurance charges (one from oak in merciless). 30% straight up physical damage reduction, no BS diminishing returns for high hits like armor gives. Way too good to pass up on any tanky build.

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Witowt wrote:

so will you respond to this?

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AlmightyPatman wrote:

Unfortunately it doesn't - the mechanics of LS is that that initial hit portion of LS is "Melee" but the projectiles are just that "projectiles" so they are not affected but melee phys dmg nodes, any str bonus or melee dmg gem (unfortunately - would be awesome ofc).

Decided to test this out with different talents, and it appears Almightypatman is correct on this.

The projectiles are not affected by str or melee phys dmg nodes. HOWEVER they ARE affected by "increased physical damage on melee weapon" nodes. Also taking the iron grip obviously make projectiles affected with strength.

So the optimal 5l setup for LS is LS+faster atks+added fire+WED+ blood magic.

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magicrectangle wrote:

@the OP:

This is a nice looking build over all, but as a tank-focused build, there is one glaring omission: endurance charges! You are literally right next to two endurance charges. All you need is to spend 2x talent points and you're at 6 endurance charges (one from oak in merciless). 30% straight up physical damage reduction, no BS diminishing returns for high hits like armor gives. Way too good to pass up on any tanky build.

The thing about endurance charges, they work better the more armor you have. There is no harm in keeping up endurance charges, but this build doesn't work too well since it is meant to be a "budget build", but if you are running with very high armor (15k+) then yes endurance charges will be great.

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Narutobieber wrote:

The thing about endurance charges, they work better the more armor you have. There is no harm in keeping up endurance charges, but this build doesn't work too well since it is meant to be a "budget build", but if you are running with very high armor (15k+) then yes endurance charges will be great.

Endurance charges are great no matter how much armor you have. Yes they're even better with high armor, but against single large hits from bosses like brutus (and his map equivalents), armor matters very little. The %based reduction from endurance charges works regardless. Yes with smaller hits there is a synergy between armor and endurance charges, but they're still very useful even if you have no armor.

Besides, you're using a shield, so you already are going to have more armor than most people, even with moderate gear. Plus granite flasks! If you keep a couple granite flasks on your bar you can pretty much spam them in any dangerous situation. A granite flask of iron skin will easily put you over 20k armor assuming even a moderately decent base armor amount.

Endurance charges aren't just for high gear levels, and given that you are literally right next to them, two skill points to get two extra endurance charges should be a no brainer at any gear level (for a tanky character).

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magicrectangle wrote:

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Narutobieber wrote:

The thing about endurance charges, they work better the more armor you have. There is no harm in keeping up endurance charges, but this build doesn't work too well since it is meant to be a "budget build", but if you are running with very high armor (15k+) then yes endurance charges will be great.

Endurance charges are great no matter how much armor you have. Yes they're even better with high armor, but against single large hits from bosses like brutus (and his map equivalents), armor matters very little. The %based reduction from endurance charges works regardless. Yes with smaller hits there is a synergy between armor and endurance charges, but they're still very useful even if you have no armor.

Besides, you're using a shield, so you already are going to have more armor than most people, even with moderate gear. Plus granite flasks! If you keep a couple granite flasks on your bar you can pretty much spam them in any dangerous situation. A granite flask of iron skin will easily put you over 20k armor assuming a moderately decent base armor amount.

Endurance charges aren't just for high gear levels, and given that you are literally right next to them, two skill points to get two extra endurance charges should be a no brainer at any gear level (for a tanky character).

my friend templar who is running this build atm, I believe he has a grand total of 2k armor =P, if you are using an archon shield, that's like 200 armor and his chest piece has a grand total of 300 armor. When I say budget build, I mean it lol. There is no downside in running endurance charges, but keeping 6+ up and running is very very very tedious and not fun at all.

He does keep 3 endurance charges running if he needs to (in some 71+ maps), but the build is designed so that keeping endurance charges isn't necessary. If you have 5.5-6k+ hp with 60%+ chance to block, it's enough to survive and even the hardest hitting bosses will have trouble killing you.

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Narutobieber wrote:

There is no downside in running endurance charges, but keeping 6+ up and running is very very very tedious and not fun at all.

It is neither hard nor tedious if you run 2x enduring cry gems instead of one. I run with enduring cry + enduring cry + faster casting in a link, and have zero issue keeping charges rolling through an entire map. I only need to start from scratch if there's a large empty area to cross (or re-trace) - and starting from scratch is easy, since with two gems I just double cast and that's usually 6 charges (3 per cast) right off if the pack size is reasonable.

Having 6k HP and only 2k armor is fine. But it doesn't mean he has bad gear. That's a lot of HP, what it means is he's made a conscious choice to ignore armor in favor of HP. That's a completely reasonable thing to do, considering the diminished effectiveness of armor against large hits. But again, granite flasks mean that even with the worst possible gear you can have high armor whenever you need it - and again, endurance charges are still good without high armor.

I wouldn't go far out of my way to get endurance charges with a build like this, but they are literally right there for the taking, one point a piece, and will significantly increase tankiness.

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magicrectangle wrote:

Having 6k HP and only 2k armor is fine. But it doesn't mean he has bad gear. That's a lot of HP, what it means is he's made a conscious choice to ignore armor in favor of HP. That's a completely reasonable thing to do, considering the diminished effectiveness of armor against large hits. But again, granite flasks mean that even with the worst possible gear you can have high armor whenever you need it - and again, endurance charges are still good without high armor.

from a cost perspective, its pretty bad gear. Buying a helm that is 300 armor 85 life and 20-30 dual res will cost about 3-4 chaos maybe 2 gcp if 4Linked. Buying a helm that is 900+ armor, 85 life and 20-30 dual res you are looking at 3+ exalts.

Same thing goes for chest piece, being armor dependent literally makes your gear costs soar astronamically... also when I say budget I mean being able to do well w/o needing all your non-chest gear 4linked (maybe only need 1 piece 4linked). What you are suggesting is great but that is another 4L since running vitality+purity+tempest shield+hatred literally leaves you with zero mana and you need to link every both enduring cries to blood magic+faster casting.

The premise of the build is simply get the highest amount of hp and block and resist as possible while doing the most dps with the cheapest gear and fewest links possible. Also this builds works great with granite flasks due to inner force affecting the flasks.

Budget is definitely a noble goal, and is why I like this build so much (I don't want to come off as overly critical, I love everything about it except this little endurance charge issue). But come on, by the time you're level 75 (the 94 point build), you're figuring on not having a second 4 link? That may be taking "budget" to an absurd extreme. You'll have found enough jewelers/fusings to make a second 4L, if you haven't simply found a decent one outright. I played purely self found (no trading) and had 4L gloves, boots, and hat by level 75. I had also lucked into a 5L chest but I wouldn't go to assuming most people will be that lucky. Having a second 4 link though I think can be safely assumed.

Probably picking up the endurance charge right next to the strength node is worth it since it's right there without having to take any extra +10 nodes. If anything a 3L for blood magic+faster casting+enduring cry in a weapon or something could be worth it just for keeping up 4 endurance charges.