Difference between Blizzard and GGG

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xxnoob wrote:

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pugacov wrote:

Now I see that you dont even know why you hate them... just another man from hatevagoon who is raging because they change something and he will be raging even if they didnt change it.

Irrelevant discussion.

I don't have to explain shit, if you played Blizzard games throughout the years and you still think their games are just as good as before, then it's your problem and your money.

As good as before?

Lost Vikings 1 -> Lost Vikings 2 (I played one of them, dont know which)
Blackthrone (classic)
Warcraft 1 -> 2 -> 3 (all of them were very good games, still dont like 3d but you cant live with 90s graphic forever)
Diablo 1 -> 2 (both titles are great)
Starcraft 1 -> BW -> 2 (since I care about MP they did pretty good job in both BW and 2)

i really dont care as long as teh company gives me a game that i can play and enjoy

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GGG designed and built a product that met a demand in the marketplace. Namely a more cerebral arpg that included character build customization, with a dark gritty atmosphere. Listening to the community and responding to ideas, they treated the (potential) customers as partners or at least as a sounding board for what the game should be.

Blizzard on the other hand seems to have built a product that a significant number of its community members have serious complaints about. Blizzard responds by essentially telling the community that it's wrong. They built a product, then have to convince the market that this is what they SHOULD want. Right now I get the feeling that there is a very antagonistic relationship now between blizzard and its customer base, which is quite sad.

You can tell a huge difference in the way that Chris and others communicate with the community on the forums to how Blizzard communicates. GGG actually answering questions as though they are speaking to you. Blizzard posts feel much more like PR releases, even on their forums. Granted, the battlenet forums have a MUCH larger population, but I don't think that should matter.

In fact, even with a smaller player base and employees, I bet that GGG is more active on their forums than blizzard is on theirs. Blue posts are relatively rare, while GGG posts and responds on nearly a daily basis it seems.

First thing you're missing is that the difference between GGG and Blizz is that GGG doesn't have an installed playerbase and no one has expectations of what PoE *should* be.

Now, if PoE is successful enough for GGG to make PoE 2, then guess what? Some people will cry because they will hold certain expectations based on the first game.

Now, the nonsense you posted about how Blizzard communicates shows that you pay little attention. Blizzard doesn't just have their forum community managers talking with players, but they post lengthy blogs explaining their thought process and which options they're looking at and why. On top of that, they also hold blizzcon where they have live Q&A and details how and why things are the way they are.

You may not like the results, but they are a very open gaming company and to say otherwise is pretty disingenuous.

Last thing to keep in mind is the community members aren't necessarily correct about anything. The reason GGG and other newer developers often listen to feedback and react to it more strongly is because they don't have years upon years of feedback and player driven data.

A common player complaint is that D3 doesn't have customizable stats. Blizzard says that from what they've observed is that player either plug in "cookie cutter" builds that are generally accepted as optimal or they make a mess of their character.

In the player's mind, they prefer to see themselves as the unique person who came up with a cool out of the box build. When in reality, they are a part of a fraction of a minority that succeeded in experimenting. If blizz has 10 years worth of information about how thousands (millions?) of players build their characters, then who knows better?

So while GGG seems exceptionally responsive, it's because they're new and they need the information so that they too can make better informed decisions. If we fast forward 5-10 years and assume GGG has been succesful, do you not think that they will have a pretty good idea of what players are and aren't doing in their own game?

If you don't like D3, no problem, nothing will please everyone. But don't be silly.

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pugacov wrote:

Lost Vikings 1 -> Lost Vikings 2 (I played one of them, dont know which)
Blackthrone (classic)
Warcraft 1 -> 2 -> 3 (all of them were very good games, still dont like 3d but you cant live with 90s graphic forever)
Diablo 1 -> 2 (both titles are great)
Starcraft 1 -> BW -> 2 (since I care about MP they did pretty good job in both BW and 2)

I think it was Blackthorne.

And to this day my favourite Blizzard game is Rock n Roll Racing. *Air guitar 'Paranoid'* "Tarquinn has launched himself!!"

Wow, I created a monster. Make a post last night and come back and check it after work and its got 4 pages....

Now I shall go back and read the posts that support my position and ignore the ones that don't.

:)

Unfortunately I had to ignore pretty much everyone. I must not have explained my position very well.... oh well.

...Ignoring the posts that don't agree with you is why your idea of a monster is 4, while mine is 140...

Then again, I wouldn't waste time starting a topic like this. It's like saying "Here, let me explain the difference between a local brewery that's just started to export to the global market, and Heineken International!"

...silly.

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

...Ignoring the posts that don't agree with you is why your idea of a monster is 4, while mine is 140...

Then again, I wouldn't waste time starting a topic like this. It's like saying "Here, let me explain the difference between a local brewery that's just started to export to the global market, and Heineken International!"

...silly.

Charan, you misunderstand. That was self deprecating humor. I know, text, sarcasm.. can't easily be picked up on. As well as a slight knock on how many forum posters act.

And also I just didn't have the energy to address many of the counterpoints, or pull up examples from D3inc showing how blizzard has repeatedly defended their current build as the 'right' way to do D3, only to change it later (runes for example).

But really I was making a point about marketing and product design, which is generally independent of company size. One company designed a product to meet a demand in the marketplace. While the other company built a product that simply capitalizes on it's brand equity. I was tempted to say they built a product and then told everyone that this is what they SHOULD want, but many people (myself included) are going to buy the game despite their misgivings.

I am even taking off the 15th, which I have never done for a video game. but that's mostly because of the Diablo name, not because I enjoyed any of the game's mechanics.

And finally, to address what someone said about not paying attention.... I think its the people who were the biggest fans that are the most upset with D3. They had very high expectations, and D3 didn't meet them. It doesn't matter that the game hasn't been released yet I don't think. The core systems of the game prohibit character customization and I would assume destroy game replayability.

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

...Ignoring the posts that don't agree with you is why your idea of a monster is 4, while mine is 140...

Oh, and let's not compare sizes...

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

...Ignoring the posts that don't agree with you is why your idea of a monster is 4, while mine is 140...

Oh, and let's not compare sizes...

*snicker* It was a little e-peeny of me, at that. But it was also a note that addressing not only your 'fans' but also your detractors can result in not only more protracted posting, but also more rewarding interaction.

I don't believe marketing and product design is entirely independent of company size. After all, what is the key factor of a large company as far as the market is concerned? Recognisability. Visibility. Familiarity. All of these will influence future marketing and product design, won't they?

They're just two very different companies who are headed in very different directions; fans of either should be very thankful for that, and fans of both shouldn't care either way. ;)

As for fans being the most disappointed...aren't they always? They invested the most -- emotionally, more than anything -- and being let down feels, to a fan, like a personal betrayal.

Now if you were to compare GGG with Blizzard North, THEN I think we'd have a real humdinger of a topic on our hands...