Ranger BEWARE BEFORE you level a ranger

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AthenaUS wrote:
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mrpetrov wrote:
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AthenaUS wrote:
I want to save many future archers the trouble of having to re-roll by selecting a ranger. The new buffs to the dueslist tree make that class farrrrrrrr superior archers regardless of wether you go the standard LA or not.

Check out my Duelist Archer (Lightning arrow) guide here BEFORE you roll your ranger..
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/268330



I think you're overstating it. In my humble view, a Ranger can get *both* the duelist starting nodes and the Ranger starting nodes by the mid 80s+/90. However, a Duelist will never get some of the juicy Ranger starting nodes. If you have a longer term view, I'd argue Ranger remains the marginal best choice, but concede Duelist has the better early-mid game build.

Petrov.


Petrov, wasting points to go up to ranger tree is exactly that, a waste. Your better off going for inner force and a third elemental damage node rathe the mediocre talents in ranger tree.


I hear you! If you don't like the 48% Evasion cluster at Ranger start, then it will definitely never be the better start than duelist. Some of that is mitigated by the 8% IAS node at Ranger start, but not entirely I agree. I'm not sure it's necessarily as clear cut as you guys say - your scenarios are based on a specific level and build concept, but I absolutely buy into the differences you've highlighted.

Like I said, I think they may even up in very late game, but no doubt in my mind for the first 85+ or so levels, Duelist is superior.

P.
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mrpetrov wrote:

I hear you! If you don't like the 48% Evasion cluster at Ranger start, then it will definitely never be the better start than duelist. Some of that is mitigated by the 8% IAS node at Ranger start, but not entirely I agree. I'm not sure it's necessarily as clear cut as you guys say - your scenarios are based on a specific level and build concept, but I absolutely buy into the differences you've highlighted.

Like I said, I think they may even up in very late game, but no doubt in my mind for the first 85+ or so levels, Duelist is superior.

P.


I would agree. I'd say ranger for damage, 39% projectile for five nodes is all right. The problem are those four evasion nodes you are forced to take. So you are basically picking nine 5.3%eva / 4.3% proj nodes. It's not that great of a deal but projectile nodes are difficult to find elsewhere (and a great way to up your dps).

I'd say marauder>duelist for hp. Both don't take the ranger evasion and cant take the ranger projectile. It actually saves 9 points which is a lot, however putting those 9 points into dmg would be counter-productive. Imho they should go into hp or %armor.

The difference would be then if you want those two starting nodes 6ias/4ias. Basically two nodes of 5ias. Which is kind of ok.

I still prefer bowrauder on hc. :)

Edit: I mistook 8ias for 8proj at the ranger start! But the conclusion stays the same. :)
Last edited by Icecreamcart on Mar 19, 2013, 8:29:39 PM
Duelist animation is 100% testosterone free. Totally gay.
IGN: Seze
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mrpetrov wrote:


I hear you! If you don't like the 48% Evasion cluster at Ranger start, then it will definitely never be the better start than duelist. Some of that is mitigated by the 8% IAS node at Ranger start, but not entirely I agree. I'm not sure it's necessarily as clear cut as you guys say - your scenarios are based on a specific level and build concept, but I absolutely buy into the differences you've highlighted.

Like I said, I think they may even up in very late game, but no doubt in my mind for the first 85+ or so levels, Duelist is superior.

P.


Agree with petrov. I came to the same conclusion after studying the new duelist nodes. its a defensive (eva%) vs offensive (speed) argument. Telling people duelist is the most superior hand down is a flat out lie due to the fact some players prefer the additional eva in late game. Early / mid game leveling i agree duelist is more superior due to acceleration.

Again, i don't really buy the sentiment 'the sky is falling please don pick RANGER!!!!'

POE game is very dynamic, new patches sometime change the landscape of the game which i think is a good thing. We never know what changes we are going to get. Just play the character you like.

Last edited by mlvnk83 on Mar 20, 2013, 2:14:29 AM
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_Seze_ wrote:
Duelist animation is 100% testosterone free. Totally gay.


He is definitely too sissy to play. never had a duelist character.
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mlvnk83 wrote:

I came to the same conclusion after studying the new duelist nodes. its a defensive (eva%) vs offensive (speed) argument.



I would disagree. The advantage of ranger is not those %eva nodes.. imho it is a disadvantage because %armor>%eva. The advantage is that at high level you will run out of good dmg nodes and ranger can pick up those %proj nodes.
After they came out with the rework of the duelist tree I decided to focus on duelist because of great starting area. With okay gears I was able to one shot most mobs/creeps until late act 2. With ranger I wouldn't be able to do this unless I use better bows/higher level which invested on phys nodes.
duelist made my life easier in the beginning
Last edited by Nikkaa on Mar 20, 2013, 3:15:47 PM
In every game, I do my best to play the closest thing to Female Elven Ranger. The Duelist is male. I never play male characters.

If PoE let you choose the sex of your toon, I might try a Duelist. But as it stands, I'll take the handicap to play my own sex.
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Zealflare wrote:
Rangers aren't terrible for bow users by any means, but it is simply not as optimized compared to starting as a duelist.

Taking the typical blood magic elemental ranger build.

What you can achieve in 40 points, as a ranger:
Build A, 40 points ranger
Build B, 40 points ranger
Build C, 40 points ranger

What you can do, also with 40 points, as a duelist:
Build A, 40 points duelist
Build B, 40 points duelist
Build C, 40 points duelist

While you may be able to progress the fastest towards BM/RT with ranger build C, it is done at the cost of abandoning ALL offensive nodes, which will greatly hinder new players. With duelist build C, you will "progress" through the build slower by 6 points, in return you will have a much better balance of offensive nodes AND a faster movement speed due to Leather and Steel.

Ranger build C:
134 str
170 dex
14 int
IR
+48% evasion
+78% hp
+15% all resist
+4% attack speed


Duelist build C:
112 str
152 dex
24 int
IR
Ignore movement speed penalty on armor
+32% evasion and armor
+62% hp
+15% all resist
+43% attack speed (bows)
+36% projectile damage


The duelist build is simply much more balanced in damage/defense distribution despite not picking up excessive offensive nodes. Its great that rangers also have access to their own Perfect Aim starter nodes, so they would win out against duelists in terms of offense, but as far as min-maxing goes, the starter nodes that rangers (both top/bottom) get aren't that great in comparison to what a duelist starts out with.


You forgot to get berserking and perfect aim, so add 23% more attack speed and 31% more projectile damage to the ranger. You don't compare builds and have one of them just kinda trail off into str nodes without reaching anything else lol

Edit: Try this instead Ranger build D 40 points
Last edited by Koivu on Mar 20, 2013, 5:06:34 PM
Last edited by beater on Mar 20, 2013, 10:11:12 PM

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