PvP Discussion - In response to the quick discussion about PvP from ExileCon - Forum

" ProjectPTStuff wrote: You can assume what you will. I participated both in the HLD and LLD and enjoyed both. There were participation issues in both the LLD and HLD dueling, but what made me stop was the PvPers. As soon as hooves was brought up to be banned they were, ya, every 3 months there is broken shit and it's really hard to work around in a format. But the truth is, most players here would rather complain than PvP. I built the entire format using players feedback and when I threw in the towel becaue I was tired of the children here, did they continue to PvP? no, because what I saw, was people pretending to be interested in PvP after all this time and after running away... you're still full of yourself? it's always great to see that nothing was learned. [Removed by Support] "Your forum signature was removed as it was considered to be inappropriate and a breach of our Code of Conduct." ...it was quotes. from the forum. lolz! Last edited by robmafia on Nov 30, 2019, 1:24:25 PM	Posted by robmafia on Nov 30, 2019, 1:22:39 PM Quote this Post
" lolozori wrote: At least we don t pretend to "quit" the game every dam 3 months. You get all our thanks for trying but you did throw the towel and made a tantrum yourself. You were the chosen one Anakin!, you really did a good work and tried your best. Always find the first point weird, I quit from the direction of the game. I returned to see new features and see if the game balance was better and left. You are complaining that a person made a call on judgment and then gave an opportunity for their judgment to be wrong. But I see why there is so much issue with the "stream" influence of a pvper. There is so much left over hate from greendude and how much of a shitshow the pvp patch was that it literally killed pvp for what.. 5+ years now? So to overcompensate everyone is throwing their voice around.. and ya it really sucks, really wanted to see pvp. But then I go through and see comments like.. PT gave up because LLD attendance? what? You can beat your chest about my comment, but look at the threads that have traction. More people need to be engaged in PvP and that is a hard thing, not making ideal pvp for any of the PvPers here. My mistake? I naively believed a ridiculous prize pool would incentivize newer players, but in reality they just hit the wall that is experienced pvpers. PoE2 actually has some interesting features in regards to PvP and after watching the announcement I went to read the PvP forums.. It's easy to blame GGG, but you also have to consider why the PvP community is hated. You can talk about the minority and random shit like that, but racers have also lost support, they also bith all the time and yet they get to have quesions and racers are large members of the community. PoE2 is a year+ away. Now is the time to bring PvP attention if people legit want to see quality of life improvements and functionalities for it in 4.0	Posted by ProjectPTStuff on Nov 30, 2019, 1:59:27 PM Quote this Post
" ProjectPTStuff wrote: It's easy to blame GGG, but wow. yes, it's easy and logical to blame those responsible. you act as if the players have control of the balance and patches. wtf is your problem, anyway? [Removed by Support] "Your forum signature was removed as it was considered to be inappropriate and a breach of our Code of Conduct." ...it was quotes. from the forum. lolz!	Posted by robmafia on Nov 30, 2019, 2:40:19 PM Quote this Post
[removed] Last edited by Aodui on Jul 16, 2020, 1:33:37 AM	Posted by Aodui on Nov 30, 2019, 2:59:20 PM Quote this Post
" ProjectPTStuff wrote: ...There is so much left over hate from greendude and how much of a shitshow the pvp patch was that it literally killed pvp for what.. 5+ years now?... Yea, it's weird to think some actions have consequences that take time to undo, especially when those who COULD undo those consequences... don't do anything. I bright that up because it's relevant. If anyone of us brings up PVP balance, people will attempt to remind us about the Greendude Incident. They always do. Except for the fact that they're just parroting what distant observers say. They don't know it was Greendude, they don't know that it was LLD. They only "know" what they see: GGG did PVP stuff and people hated it! And now we're stuck with that. But things are changing, we've gotten some balance updates, they're actually listening to us now, and it's terrific! Lavender or Leave. PvPresident, 2016 // You'd better run. “EA is fine” -relith	Posted by I_am_Upset on Nov 30, 2019, 3:17:12 PM Quote this Post
" Aodui wrote: PVP did not die until Betrayal, when the daily quest was removed. We had a slight uptick when the Koreans joined us, but that faded away when the league ended. PoE2 does not look like it will have the Bandits quest, or the Sarn Arena -- the demo did have the PVP and Events menu but honestly it would be more work to remove it so I am not reading too deeply into it. Chris and Jonathan both appear to want to be able to do more to support PVP: - They said so at Exilecon - The game was originally marketed with PVP as a feature - The game is clearly a tribute to Diablo II and Magic the Gathering - They even flew that Greendude out and attempted to make some sort of LLD esport thing, which most of us who are still around feel was the wrong play / not what we wanted, but the effort was there Exilecon showed how popular racing could be, because a lot of people had fun watching four players race each other, and they will definitely be trying to make more of that happen. There is no reason why PVP cannot change course like that as well, I think Ken may be correct: the Redditors who abhorred the idea of any resources spent on PVP, because their Gnome was abused in Stranglethorn Vale a little bit too much, may no longer feel threatened that other people PVPing would ruin their PVE experience. All I think we need is a player funnel to a specific place and time for a reason, and for GGG to more quickly react to off-the-charts skill or item imbalances that ruin the experience Yea but their new idea about racing is to just promote the top players, no more season reward so I am not sure it will be of any major interest unless they give free twitch stuff. I also think they want to push Royal style pvp and I think it is the same mistake in the long run as promoting LLD. Sure royal is fun for few days but there is no depth and it is more a shooting skill gameplay than strategic and brainstorming of build. And yea if there is no sarn is poe 2.0 then I guess pvp will become "legacy" with only poe 1 builds being able to do seasonal pvp if even seasonal pvp still survive in 2.0, Forum pvp Last edited by lolozori on Nov 30, 2019, 3:21:47 PM	Posted by lolozori on Nov 30, 2019, 3:21:04 PM Quote this Post
" Aodui wrote: Chris and Jonathan both appear to want to be able to do more to support PVP: - They said so at Exilecon - The game was originally marketed with PVP as a feature - The game is clearly a tribute to Diablo II and Magic the Gathering - They even flew that Greendude out and attempted to make some sort of LLD esport thing, which most of us who are still around feel was the wrong play / not what we wanted, but the effort was there Exilecon showed how popular racing could be, because a lot of people had fun watching four players race each other, and they will definitely be trying to make more of that happen. All I think we need is a player funnel to a specific place and time for a reason, and for GGG to more quickly react to off-the-charts skill or item imbalances that ruin the experience Thing is, Chris and Jonathan have been saying that for years, and they can't have an excuse of not enough time or money at this point. They've also changed from rebalancing skills mid patch, which is kinda needed for PvP. Is possible, but there seems to be no desire	Posted by ProjectPTStuff on Nov 30, 2019, 3:29:39 PM Quote this Post
Ad hominems and stewed animosities aside, I think the bottom line of why we're upset with you, ProjectPT, was basically the lack of decorum or formality of why you suddenly left. Granted, your position wasn't one I envied in the slightest, because when you made a decision there's others visions of PVP that you had to explain to as well. While your enthusiam was much welcomed, I think the problem was a bit due to your lack of experience in PVP which made it hard to discern whose vision of PVP you were catering to. There probably needed to be someone (or community) with more proactivity with identifying the overpowered mechanics than reactivity (I understand that there will always be an element of the latter, because of how many mechanics there are in PoE). With less changes to the ruleset, we can become more acclimated with the meta, which in turn could have allowed the newcomers to discern what works and what doesn't work without fearing it will be banned. While I know that some of us were not the easiest to deal with, I think there were quite a bit of people who genuinely wanted eHLD to be a perfect PVP environment, and gave constructive criticism rather than some of the indignation that some felt. Even if there was a little frustration voiced in some's opinions, there was an underlying vision of PVP that was probable for debate. When that happens, I think it's time that everyone steps back a bit and talk things out rationally. It shouldn't be about "us versus them". I honestly did want a PVP that is both mentally engaging and visually pleasing for the general viewer. That's my post-mortem on eHLD.	Posted by CoalMN on Nov 30, 2019, 3:34:56 PM Quote this Post
" CoalMN wrote: Ad hominems and stewed animosities aside, I think the bottom line of why we're upset with you, ProjectPT, was basically the lack of decorum or formality of why you suddenly left. Granted, your position wasn't one I envied in the slightest, because when you made a decision there's others visions of PVP that you had to explain to as well. While your enthusiam was much welcomed, I think the problem was a bit due to your lack of experience in PVP which made it hard to discern whose vision of PVP you were catering to. There probably needed to be someone (or community) with more proactivity with identifying the overpowered mechanics than reactivity (I understand that there will always be an element of the latter, because of how many mechanics there are in PoE). With less changes to the ruleset, we can become more acclimated with the meta, which in turn could have allowed the newcomers to discern what works and what doesn't work without fearing it will be banned. While I know that some of us were not the easiest to deal with, I think there were quite a bit of people who genuinely wanted eHLD to be a perfect PVP environment, and gave constructive criticism rather than some of the indignation that some felt. Even if there was a little frustration voiced in some's opinions, there was an underlying vision of PVP that was probable for debate. When that happens, I think it's time that everyone steps back a bit and talk things out rationally. It shouldn't be about "us versus them". I honestly did want a PVP that is both mentally engaging and visually pleasing for the general viewer. That's my post-mortem on eHLD. When I think about eHLD and in theory PoE2 eHLD, the ascendancies are just a wall that as a community we can't work around. Let alone the other problems	Posted by ProjectPTStuff on Nov 30, 2019, 3:43:33 PM Quote this Post
HLD without ascendancies could be fun imo. Forum pvp	Posted by lolozori on Nov 30, 2019, 3:54:59 PM Quote this Post