It's almost 2020(Now its actually 2020) - Lets have Male and Female versions of all classes.

Chris answered the question of alternate sexes in this interveiw with Quin: https://youtu.be/ocJgvm6JlKs?t=1364

Quin: What about male and female versions of models? Like can you change gender?

Chris: Path of Exile 2, by default, there is just one fixed sex per character class because it's a specific character you're dealing with. But we can make alternate sexes and probably will sell them as microtransactions.

So, as of ExileCon, their stance is the class is locked to a certain sex and even character because that's a "specific character you're dealing with." You aren't just any duelist for example, you're THE Duelist. So if you want to change away from that, be prepared to pay.

Also, they will not be making new player character models until they switch over to Vulkan. During another panel, they mentioned how the current character models are quite the pain to work with such as having to adjust armor and the like further out on the right side for the Witch because she's asymmetrical. I'd take that to mean they will not be doing any work or modifications of the current models (even if it was a palette swap and a few mesh changes) because they'd much rather get new models fully made and updated to new standards. They'd rather have to only do it once, and do it right that time, even if it means delaying it.

"

Jackalope_Gaming wrote:

Chris answered the question of alternate sexes in this interveiw with Quin: https://youtu.be/ocJgvm6JlKs?t=1364

Quin: What about male and female versions of models? Like can you change gender?

Chris: Path of Exile 2, by default, there is just one fixed sex per character class because it's a specific character you're dealing with. But we can make alternate sexes and probably will sell them as microtransactions.

So, as of ExileCon, their stance is the class is locked to a certain sex and even character because that's a "specific character you're dealing with." You aren't just any duelist for example, you're THE Duelist. So if you want to change away from that, be prepared to pay.

Also, they will not be making new player character models until they switch over to Vulkan. During another panel, they mentioned how the current character models are quite the pain to work with such as having to adjust armor and the like further out on the right side for the Witch because she's asymmetrical. I'd take that to mean they will not be doing any work or modifications of the current models (even if it was a palette swap and a few mesh changes) because they'd much rather get new models fully made and updated to new standards. They'd rather have to only do it once, and do it right that time, even if it means delaying it.

That is such crap, paying for an option almost every multiplayer rpg has these days, Yeah i'd be fine if they never added it but if they really add a pay-only option for an alternate sex without adding in basic options i'm 100% never giving them ANY more money.

If they're gonna do it right then they should do it actually right and try to attract as many users as possible as customers. why not make the models and then sell stuff like hair, skin tones, the default armour skins, maybe even voice modification of your character and more.

Don't add it? Ok i tried to make a thread to explain why it would be good for the game in general, ggg does not nor does anyone else have to agree with me thats whatever..

But add one of the most basic features in any MMORPG and put a paywall on it? pffff that is absolutely disgusting.

the fact that Chris got asked this and that he immediately thought of selling it? Cool................... The disconnect from reality and the user base in general is embarrassing yet somehow not at all surprising.

Not sure how this post reads but it does feel a bit angry as im writing it, Just wanna say thanks for the info and your personal feedback Jackalope, This whole thread is just something i thought would help the game in the long run.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

That is such crap, paying for an option almost every multiplayer rpg has these days, Yeah i'd be fine if they never added it but if they really add a pay-only option for an alternate sex without adding in basic options i'm 100% never giving them ANY more money.

This kinda betrays how little you are actually thinking about this.

How many of those rpgs are free to play?
Most premium games have a larger resource pool to draw from.

How many of those rpgs have character dialogue lines? This a big thing, you add a second sex in a game with character dialogue.. you immediately double the amount of voice lines and therefore voice actors you need to pay for.

How many of those rpgs have defined characters rather than just a generic avatar specifically designed for players to project themselves on?

Can you imagine how much work it would have been to make say geralt of rivia optionally female? It goes past just lines at this point.. personalities and interactions would need to shift too.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

If they're gonna do it right then they should do it actually right and try to attract as many users as possible as customers. why not make the models and then sell stuff like hair, skin tones, the default armour skins, maybe even voice modification of your character and more.

Why? this seems like a laughably bad investment of resources. For one thing for the vast majority of people every single inch of skin and hair will be covered by all of those armor and weapon mtxs that ggg already sells.

Tell me how often do YOU look at your character without your gear on?

In my case I often forget what the underlying character models even look like these days.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

Don't add it? Ok i tried to make a thread to explain why it would be good for the game in general, ggg does not nor does anyone else have to agree with me thats whatever..


But add one of the most basic features in any MMORPG and put a paywall on it? pffff that is absolutely disgusting.

It is only a basic feature in mmorpgs because they are mmorgps.
Poe is not an mmo.
you dont really go on raids.
You barely ever play with other people. when you do its often a case of one dude crushing everything before everyone else while the rest play a walking simulator.
You camera is not 3 feet from your avatar so you can make out details like eye and hair color.. its an isometric game where the camera is 30 feet from the avatar.
The underlying character model is simply not that important. And frankly the main reason they made new ones in the first place has FAR more to do with the overhauling of the animation system so they could do stuff like shapeshifting and physics based stuff along with bringing them in line with all the other graphical overhauls than it does giving players shiny new avatars to oggle.
That is what we have hideouts for. hideouts are the real method of expression in this game.

Just because its a base feature in a genre built around being social does not mean it should be a base feature in every other genre in existence.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

That is such crap, paying for an option almost every multiplayer rpg has these days, Yeah i'd be fine if they never added it but if they really add a pay-only option for an alternate sex without adding in basic options i'm 100% never giving them ANY more money.

I think you're being ridiculous. Adding new character models, voicelines, etc is costly and GGG has every reason to monetize it. Selecting chosen gender for your character is in fact the perfect type of microtransaction as it is purely cosmetic from a gameplay perspective.

If you feel extremely strongly about your character presenting as a specific gender then choose the class whose appearance fits your desires best. The skill tree is so flexible that you're at worst giving up 10% efficiency or whatever.

Further, if a customer would only play PoE if they are catered to in selecting their character model then GGG is probably better off not having them. This type will demand more and more and never be satisfied because they're participating for some reason other than the core gameplay.

Female Marauder and Male Ranger would be hot af <3

I completely agree that it's time to be free from gender locks. It's an anachronism that creeped into Poe as a tribute to Diablo. I want to play a Merlin like wizard and i can't due to gender lock. However i don't see it happening any time soon because i don't think GGG would allocate the resources necessary for it.

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS ABOUT AN IDEA TO BE CONSIDERED FOR THE FUTURE AND IS NOT A DEMAND

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

This kinda betrays how little you are actually thinking about this.

How many of those rpgs are free to play?
Most premium games have a larger resource pool to draw from.

ESO, Destiny 2, there's more but as some of POE's direct competitors they do quite well at both PVE and PVP and there's plenty more where that came from.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

How many of those rpgs have character dialogue lines? This a big thing, you add a second sex in a game with character dialogue.. you immediately double the amount of voice lines and therefore voice actors you need to pay for.

Do you have any idea how much voice acting actually costs? Its quite reasonable unless you want a popular actor, Also POE 2 wont cost us anything and is gonna be voiced isn't it?

Then again WITH POE2 i sadly cannot argue against the cost so much now as rather than double the voice-actor-time its potentially 4x the amount of work than when i started this thread.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

How many of those rpgs have defined characters rather than just a generic avatar specifically designed for players to project themselves on?

You have a point there though most games that are locked in this fashion are singleplayer immersive expereinces, This is why i did not play BDO because A : its a crappy game and B: i don't like genderlocks

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

Can you imagine how much work it would have been to make say geralt of rivia optionally female? It goes past just lines at this point.. personalities and interactions would need to shift too.

Ahh wondered why that name was lost on me, the witcher main character? I've never played the witcher or know enough to comment on it but its singleplayer entirely yea? I don't consider POE at all the same as a game like that.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

Why? this seems like a laughably bad investment of resources. For one thing for the vast majority of people every single inch of skin and hair will be covered by all of those armor and weapon mtxs that ggg already sells.

Tell me how often do YOU look at your character without your gear on?

In my case I often forget what the underlying character models even look like these days.

I see where pretty much every person in this thread is coming from on both sides and i don't disagree with most of it but as someone who has been not well off in life i have not had a lot of money to buy support packs and other things very often so actually i'd spend quite a lot of time looking at my basic character even if i did have equipment on it rarely covers most of my character to the point i cant see numerous details across most of the body during my playtime.. Now i do play in a very zoomed out state because of my resolution but those who play fullscreen this is much more apparent.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

It is only a basic feature in mmorpgs because they are mmorgps.
Poe is not an mmo.
you dont really go on raids.
You barely ever play with other people. when you do its often a case of one dude crushing everything before everyone else while the rest play a walking simulator.
You camera is not 3 feet from your avatar so you can make out details like eye and hair color.. its an isometric game where the camera is 30 feet from the avatar.
The underlying character model is simply not that important. And frankly the main reason they made new ones in the first place has FAR more to do with the overhauling of the animation system so they could do stuff like shapeshifting and physics based stuff along with bringing them in line with all the other graphical overhauls than it does giving players shiny new avatars to oggle.
That is what we have hideouts for. hideouts are the real method of expression in this game.

Just because its a base feature in a genre built around being social does not mean it should be a base feature in every other genre in existence.

POE might want to be solely classified as an ARPG but sadly it cannot so long as it fulfills the requirements of an MMORPG, It has a massive userbase that plays online exclusively which can play together in all content and it is an RPG = Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game

Hideouts are the real means of expression in this game? Yeah only for a percentage of the userbase.. Everyone expresses themselves in their own way some through their character or hideout and some through other things like their achievements and prowess.

I actually mostly play with others outside of endgame leveling which i like to play safe with 95+ and in the older days of this game before things got really out of control i almost never played by myself EVER unless i was just kicking rocks in fellshrine ruins.

Its less about ogling the character and more about feeling a connection with it and on some of my playthroughs with the witch i certainly feel as connected to her as a male could while playing this game but on others i feel like everything is wrong, For some people ogling their character is a bigger deal to them than feeling that connection like I'm lookin for.

On the can't see your character thing that might be true if i were in a full supporter pack from head to toe but most people are not and even though i have one i am also not using the helmet so yeah i can see my characters hair and parts of their face and this is much more apparent on other equipment:

On voice actors.. Most voice actors worth their salt can take on a lot of roles or at least more than one, A voice actor that can not do this imo is not qualified to be called a voice actor.. By no means do i wish to discount these peoples talent who do not take on a lot of roles.

These individuals come in varied forms such as:

Voice-over

Voice-over talent or voice talent

Voice-over performer

Voice-over artist

Voice actor <- what they need and 100% should be able to perform multiple characters.



Anyway thanks for your feedback

"

I think you're being ridiculous. Adding new character models, voicelines, etc is costly and GGG has every reason to monetize it. Selecting chosen gender for your character is in fact the perfect type of microtransaction as it is purely cosmetic from a gameplay perspective.

Ehh maybe i have been a bit rediculous in some of my defensive posts here, I was a bit salty at the stuff chris said in the last one.

There's a few archetypes of people in the world some of which are more attuned to sound and some sight and many others beyond that.. The people who are auditory types tend to be immersed more by the music and voices in games especially their own character where as a visual type would be more focussed on their characters looks and everything going on in their environment.

I am an auditory type so the visuals aren't as of a big deal to me but when it comes to sound i notice quite often that i am playing a young woman most of the time and it does SOMETIMES tear me out of my immersion, The times when i am actually immersed in this game are truly wonderful.

People differ a great deal in our over complicated world we created but when you tear away all the wallpaper and layers of lead paint we aren't really as complex as we'd like to think we are.

"

If you feel extremely strongly about your character presenting as a specific gender then choose the class whose appearance fits your desires best. The skill tree is so flexible that you're at worst giving up 10% efficiency or whatever.

I would not say i feel strongly about it however through my personal experience meeting a lot of people in this game and many others i do feel somewhat sure that it would benefit GGG to think about this in the future.

And nice point you made there about the skill tree.. The skill tree and equipment system is why i am here right now not the characters and certainly not the story though the story is pretty cool sometimes when i take the time to actually litsten/read... but outside of some very powerful ascendancy i almost 100% agree as you can turn just about any position in the tree into an advantage for almost any build with the right setup.

"

Further, if a customer would only play PoE if they are catered to in selecting their character model then GGG is probably better off not having them. This type will demand more and more and never be satisfied because they're participating for some reason other than the core gameplay.

ESO and other games are killing it by catering to people like that, POE makes most if not all of its money entirely off MTX? I'd say they should be a priority for GGG if anything because the types who are more focused on that stuff are generally the ones dropping the most money on it.

You may or may not believe how much money people drop in ESO for a stupid accessory.

Anyway thank you as well for your feedback!

______________________________________________________

POE has some big advantages over some of these other much more modern games and im quite happy about that but their playercounts just keep dropping as time goes on and it makes me really sad, Would adding these alternate sex options fix everything and revitalize the game!? No it would simply attract more users and add immersion to those who already play.

Every single person outside of on this forum i have asked about the alternate sex option has 100% agreed they would like that and on about a 30% chance they would also say that there are more important things right now to worry about which i agree and that is the defining reason why this was stated as to be an idea for the future to be considered.

about 90% of these users also said that they would not like it if GGG made it a pay-only option and they think it would be pretty crappy of GGG.

I challenge anyone here to actually go out and ask a few people what they would think of this without pushing their personal bias on the person in the delivery of the question and see for yourself what the actual feedback is.

Anywho thanks everyone for your feedback from all sides of this discussion.

Final Statements:

With the development of POE2 and the amount of work that may be required to achieve the goals listed in this thread this has definitely slid further down the slope towards the valley of pipe dreams more than it has ever been with only one small glint of hope in that with the new engine some or a lot of these problems outside of voice acting may be resolved or made less of an actual obstacle allowing doing something like this to be less of an idea and more an achievable reality... It just wouldn't be anytime soon and before POE2 was announced i was aware that this was not something that would come soon and tried to structure the OP to reflect that.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

"

Jackalope_Gaming wrote:

Chris answered the question of alternate sexes in this interveiw with Quin: https://youtu.be/ocJgvm6JlKs?t=1364

Quin: What about male and female versions of models? Like can you change gender?

Chris: Path of Exile 2, by default, there is just one fixed sex per character class because it's a specific character you're dealing with. But we can make alternate sexes and probably will sell them as microtransactions.

So, as of ExileCon, their stance is the class is locked to a certain sex and even character because that's a "specific character you're dealing with." You aren't just any duelist for example, you're THE Duelist. So if you want to change away from that, be prepared to pay.

Also, they will not be making new player character models until they switch over to Vulkan. During another panel, they mentioned how the current character models are quite the pain to work with such as having to adjust armor and the like further out on the right side for the Witch because she's asymmetrical. I'd take that to mean they will not be doing any work or modifications of the current models (even if it was a palette swap and a few mesh changes) because they'd much rather get new models fully made and updated to new standards. They'd rather have to only do it once, and do it right that time, even if it means delaying it.

That is such crap, paying for an option almost every multiplayer rpg has these days, Yeah i'd be fine if they never added it but if they really add a pay-only option for an alternate sex without adding in basic options i'm 100% never giving them ANY more money.

If they're gonna do it right then they should do it actually right and try to attract as many users as possible as customers. why not make the models and then sell stuff like hair, skin tones, the default armour skins, maybe even voice modification of your character and more.

Don't add it? Ok i tried to make a thread to explain why it would be good for the game in general, ggg does not nor does anyone else have to agree with me thats whatever..

But add one of the most basic features in any MMORPG and put a paywall on it? pffff that is absolutely disgusting.

the fact that Chris got asked this and that he immediately thought of selling it? Cool................... The disconnect from reality and the user base in general is embarrassing yet somehow not at all surprising.

Not sure how this post reads but it does feel a bit angry as im writing it, Just wanna say thanks for the info and your personal feedback Jackalope, This whole thread is just something i thought would help the game in the long run.

A new model and voice actor for every class is a ton of money, and most people don't give a shit about the sex of their character. Also there are a ton of games that are gender locked.

Also what does a voice actor being able to perform multiple roles have to do with anything? Even if they used the same actor for more than 1 class that doesn't make it any cheaper.

"

rocetti wrote:

Female Marauder and Male Ranger would be hot af <3

+1 to that

"

Telzen wrote:

A new model and voice actor for every class is a ton of money, and most people don't give a shit about the sex of their character. Also there are a ton of games that are gender locked.

Also what does a voice actor being able to perform multiple roles have to do with anything? Even if they used the same actor for more than 1 class that doesn't make it any cheaper.

Saying most people don't give a shit about the sex of their character on the surface might be true but i guarantee that in reality more do than do not however their reasons for it vary greatly.

The voice actor being able to perform multiple roles for example is what makes them a voice actor rather than a voice talent or voice-over or voice-over-talent or voice-over-artist.

I could prove that it does save them money but it would be a stupid and trivial argument and a waste of all of our time based of taxes and some other boring junk.

Anywho im not sure what GGG payed for the voices used in their game or if they even hired actual voice-actors or not but its not nearly as freaking expensive as many of the users in this thread think especially when GGG is selling off stock for millions its barely a noticeable blip in their radar unless they are hiring high end voice talents that are at a high price like destiny 2 which has a lot of famous voice-actors and actors in general.


So without that data gl on anyone including myself making any real valid argument on the COST to GGG lolz.

So unless someone at GGG would like to key in here on that (oh wait this isnt reddit) then i guess we're all clueless on the situation aren't we.. oh wait there's google! and a not extremely popular VOICE ACTOR can run anywhere from 80-200$ a an hour and considering that you can beat the game in like 2hours'sh that hardly seems like more than a few supporter packs.. Maybe they pay more than that? but again without GGG or someone from GGG commenting its basically a stupid argument for us players to have with each other.

Thanks for your feedback btw, it is important all sides of this get to voice their opinions even if i or others disagree with it :P

bonus:

this is apparently the voice actor for the shadow btw.

Elliot Christensen-Yule


I was not able to find the cost of his services but i doubt it would hurt GGG at all, they aren't the tiny group that originally started this game anymore when they needed every penny they could get, they have xbox/mobile/etc things going on now and more.

We need to stop treating GGG like some indie studio as they ARE NOT that anymore.