[3.8] Firedance - Cyclone CwC Volitile Dead Chieftain, largest AoE Cyclone? Fast and HC Friendly

SO GGG tries to nerf the AoE on Cyclone? I'll show them! More AoE than before!

The AoE! All of it Mwuahahahaha!


Pros
1. Monsterous AOE & Mobility (good map clear)
2. Super Tanky (HC viable)
3. Mostly affordable (even SSF viable)
4. Easy play style (self-automated build)
5. You can kill bosses from off screen (assuming the arena is big enough)

Cons
1. Hard to Quantify DPS (still good though)
2. Has an issue with some phasing bosses (addressed and resolved in the guide)
3. Elemental Reflect maps wreck you as Cheiftain (avoid like the black plague) Elementalist and Ascendant Variations available to resolve this.

So this build isnt as stupidly overpowered as my last build (A.K.A. Smashing Cyclone found here https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2604326/page/1) But at least it clears maps even faster!

Updates:(I'll post new ramblings here)
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Introductions, Abbreviations & Build Mechanics: (please save questions till the end of the tour~)
Spoiler
This build idea poped into my head when I was looking at this neato Weapon:

After looking at it I was thinking, "What idiot would use a weapon to boost attacks and spells at the same time and not focus on one or the other?"

This idiot right here.

But really this weapon is siiick.
It adds a tonne of flat fire damage to both attacks and spells, then doubles it with 100% increased fire damage. Preatty shway if you ask me!

So how do we "do the use of" this weapons? Well im sure there are a lot of ways, many probably better then mine. But I do two things really well. Cast when Damage Taken (CWDT) and Cast while Channelling (CwC) so lets start there.

Cyclone is a channeling skill now right? Cool. And it does whatever type of damage your weapon does? Czech. (See what I did there? I made a punny flay on words.)

Next, who doesn't like exploding corpses? Also who doesn't like skills that use smart-tracking to kill your enemies for you? (Please dont actually answer those, rehtorical questions should only have rehtorical answers) Also fire damage? Czech.

Okay so now we got our fun ideas. How to make corpses? LOTS OF WAYS! *party flares* CWDT, Totems, and your basic but good, killling things!

The Cyclone actually does relatively decent damage (50k-60k on crap gear) enough to insta-gib any white packs or take a moment and magic mobs will die as well. It's not superb, but its enough to make the VD castcade start which is our real damage maker (about 1.2mil dps)

But relying on white or blue packs suuucks, so lets supliment that with CWDT or Totems! Bam instant corpse genreation. More details to follow in gem links.

So what's next? Oh, wait, no that's pretty much it. Get some mega-tank on I guess?


Passives & Ascendancy: (and variations on that theme)
Spoiler
Now that I'm done rambling heres a build guide...

Or rather a PoB Link casue I'm lazy!
https://pastebin.com/zdGh3rMt

Okay okay, Here are some Passive tree's I won't be completely lazy about this.
40 Points: www.poeurl.com/cBkt (Note: No Staff or Fire Specific or Endurance for easy leveling)
80 Points: www.poeurl.com/cBku (You should start focusing on Fire and Tankiness)
100 Points: www.poeurl.com/cBkw (Second verse, same as the first, a little bit louder, and a little bit worse)
114 Points: www.poeurl.com/cBky (Grab the small life nodes last for continuing tank as you progress)

At any point you need Dex or Int for gear. Do not hesitate to grab those 30 point nodes you pass by. One passive point is worth being able to equip better gear!

Ascendancy Order. To be honest, this is personal preference, any order is good. But this is the order I chose cause I wanted to burn through the atlas Zoomy style.

Sun's Light -> Death's Fury -> Forest's Stregth -> Storm's Embrace

Cleansing Water has an argument for it in the sense of tankiness. But I ultimately decided against it. We are already plenty tanky at nearly 8k life, 5 endurance charges, high block, with tons of leech regen and various forms of midigation, we're preatty tough as nails as is.

For Bandits, genocide is not always the answer; but in this case it is!

Ah yes, The Pantheon, the one thing I always forget to look at (I was level 92 before I was reminded, but I just used the same crap i use while leveling every time)

We have a couple options, I recommend Brine King to prevent stun, though it's upgrades are rather useless. Any other would also help, but nothing really stands as essential.

For Minor really nothing is important but they all work aside for Tukohama. I did Ryslatha to make Labrynth easier and that way I could be lazy and never look at my patheon again.


Equipment: (no, no, not that kind! get your brain out of the gutter, the author says to himself)
Spoiler

Yes I included scrolls. WHAT! you need them don't you? Could you imagine playing this game with out wisdom scrolls?

Detailed Item Breakdown: (Hammertime! Break it down.)
Spoiler
First Note: No uniques are required, they are just nice options!


Martyr of Innocence is what spurred the idea for this build. But is not really essential, just the best I have found for it so far. It adds a tonne of damage to our.. well everything we do.

All the stats are relatively important, but in my opinion the most important stat on this 16% Block 'cause tank! that's why.

This build is SSF friendly, so any yellow that adds flat or percent or both fire damage is good. Part way into maps I dropped a Ngamahus Flame and that worked really well till I could afford a Martyr.


Kaom's Heart is a nice end game item for the build. The fire damage % does matter though, so do what I do, buy a crap one and divine it once!

Budget options are a rare armor with life and resists, or a Carcass Jack, adds to damage, life, and resists!


Eye of Innocence & Ngamahu's Sign go together like tweedle-dee tweedle-dum, this will help proc CWDT to save us the effort of placing a totem. Horray Lazziness!


Sunspite, They work in tandem with Eye of Innocence Making us Self-Ignight for more damage, and speed! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!


Get a ring with Curse Enemies with Warlords Mark on Hit. This is our main generation for Endurance Charges. There are alternatives for SSF players though. e.g. i.e. too wit. igloo: Enduring Cry.


The rest of your gear get Life, Resists, Resists, and more Resists. 'Cept Fire cause you do preatty well in that department already from uniques.


I like my safety, so I still run a life flask on pretty much everything except CI. The Mana Flask has gotten me out of a few pickles with funny map mods as well. The rest are based on playstyle and preference. I like Zooming, you may have heard me say this a few times by now...


YA GOTTA HAVE THESE!



Gem Links: (does anyone know if Cobalt is a gem?)
Spoiler
Assume Level 20 Gem unless it states otherwise in Parentheses. (that is a weird word to spell out, despite how much I enjoy using them...)

Weapon G-G-B-B-B-R: Cyclone -> Volitile Dead -> Cast while Channelling -> Combustion -> Controlled Destruction(5Link) -> Fire Penetration(6Link)

Conc Effect is another option for more damage. But I liked the playstyle with these links more.

4Link R-R-B-G: Cast When Damage Taken(20) -> Vaal Molten Shell -> Wave of Comviction -> Blood Rage (Level 10).

The Vaal Molten Shell is nice for a quick boost to life/armor, as well as a good source of bursty damage while fighting a boss. Wave of Convicton because damage and exposure! The Blood Rage stops at level 10 because of Dex requirments.

2x2Link R-R-R-G: Anger -> Herald of Ash -> Leap Slam -> Faster Attacks

Anger and Herald of Ash give us some good damage, and HoA's passive is nice too, since the VD hits like a Mac Truck.

For the last 4 link we have an option, or both if you are not using a Kaom's Heart.

4Link R-G-G-R: Spell Totem -> Unearth -> Greater Multiple Projectiles -> Increased Duration
-OR-
4Link R-G-G-R: Cast When Damage Taken (level 1)-> Unearth (level 8)-> Greater Multiple Projectiles -> Desecrate (level 7)

I did CWDT combo for fast map clearing and NEVER having to stop Cycloning to cast anything else. But you run into problems with Phasing Bosses with no mobs, it takes a while to get the combo rolling again because you are not dealing enough damage to yourself fast enough or waiting till they hit you to start the combo again, (once going it keeps going) This is one hyper specific type of boss fight, but it can be irritating. Especially if you keep blocking the bosses attacks.

The totem setup works wonders in every situation, but you periodically have to stop cycloning to summon a totem or at the very least the start of a new area. To me an irritant, but to many people it is natural. The choice is ultimately yours. I actually miss the days with Carcass Jack when I had both. But to level at end game I wanted to be moar tanky.


Leveling The Build: (how I mine fish?)
Spoiler
So you can level this build any way you want! Some are just better then others. For example, if you really wanted to you could level gearless and punch act 5 Kitava in the face! This will be tragically slow, and won't really work after act 5, but you could do it. Regardless I don't recommend it, (for your sanity's sake).

You could; however, level with molten strike and ancestral call. "Like what I did" as a league start.

Honestly, any fire skill would work great depending on the gear used. Incinerate, Firestorm, Magma Orb, Infernal Blow, etc.

Until Cyclone then I imidiately swiched over to that.

Items that work well while leveling:
Spoiler


Like any build these are just great level 1 uniques. But they are in no way necessary.

On a second character of a league I will typically have those equipped and these items waiting in my inventory, to be used as soon as I hit the appropriate level.

I don't look back when I take off! Literally, I often don't return to town until I've reached the act 2 town, with this gear in hand. That's the point when I like to think about what I'm doing with my life, then I remember I'm playing a game to relax from 80 hours of work, and then plan out my character; and finally allocate those pesky passive points piling up.



If you are leveling Cyclone Ngamahu's Flame is a good alternative. If you are leveling with fire spells, and rare wand or scepter with fire damage is great!


Other useful Mid-Level Uniques. You may have spotted a theme here; Life, Resists, & some Damage, the staples of leveling. A lot of these uniques are highly underrated for how good they are at getting you to and sometimes through white maps.


Once you have cyclone, as long as you have enough life to not get one shot. This thing will single-handedly keep you alive, and have no worry for mana (go ahead and reserve 90%+ of it for moar damage!).

If you find yourself starting to go splat to often you may just need to pick up some rares with life and resists, until you get your end game gear. I used that body armor till I got my Koam's Heart. And my first few Guardians I was still using that helm.


If you can't afford Kaom's Heart at a leagues start, this is a good alternatives till the cash is in hand, or the price drops.



Videos: (please don't hurt yourself laughing at my lack of skill!)
Spoiler
Atoll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp4jDjWKryw (The first run on this build, I was doing about 25% of the damage as I am now since I reworked the build and got a 6-link)

Poorjoys Assylum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcm7oMLZXO8 (Map clearing potential, reworked with more damage using the grear in this guide!)

Okay, now that you've seen how bad I really am at this game. You can all have confidence, that with this build, you can farm maps with the best of them.

My crappy sad Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo340uFCQ3yd32elpTqYgLw


FAQ's: (did I miss anything?)
Spoiler
Bah, I'll add crap as I get asked questions.

For realzies though, if there is something I forgot, let me know! I handle constructive criticism very well! And I desperately need improvement!


Fin.
Last edited by Sir_Ramsis_XIII on Oct 12, 2019, 9:13:27 PM
Last bumped on Nov 27, 2019, 7:21:23 AM
ooooo fun!!!

could you play this as a witch?
"
Darkchyld187 wrote:
ooooo fun!!!

could you play this as a witch?


Yes as Elementalist ideally.

Pros:
More damage
Reflect Immune

Cons:
Not as tanky
Cool build man, simple yet clever and well explained.

Thanks :-)
Thank you for this, I'm quite the masochist so I like trying out random niche builds on HC :)

Would you recommend switching over to CwC right when I'm able to use the staff? or later on once i've gotten more fire nodes?
I have started right on lvl 38, when I could equip the cwc gem. Looks nice so far, cruising with shitty gear, but only lvl 42 :) Can't wait getting my hands on that staff
If I had known about Volatile Dead working like this I would have stepped on the nightmare that Diablo 3 has become a lot sooner.

It's basically greater greater multiple projectiles (GGMP) fiery Frozen Orb. It's a part of Diablo 3 that I used to play like crazy but I can't stand listening to or even thinking about the company connected to it.

It's completely useable at L52 with the staff and if you stack fire multiplier, once those orbs speed toward the target, that target is as good as dead no matter what it is. If all those orbs hit and there's nothing to pull all of them away, they may as well just raise their hands and submit to death.

It does rely on Desecrate being on Cast on Damage Taken and you want to take as much damage as you can survive in a hit to trigger the orb explosion's maximum capability, because when they explode, even the Abyssal portals with all that stuff pouring out of them vaporizes in a hellish-killing-your-frame-rate-like-I've-never-seen-before fire damage in a single-multiple-massive-boom with 10 orbs being spawned in the desecrate on top of the 10 you've got after trash-mobs get killed by them.

The damage from each orb is really strong- and the only reason it's not nerfed is because they can target away from where you want them to go as they lock on to stuff off-screen. But the good news is, these orbs have some kind of projectile acceleration- they really go fast once they get going and go way off screen.

If you've got just 1 exalt and 50 chaos, you can try this out.

It's not as powerful as my current L92 Chieftain with molten balls (because it's so fast) but all you think about is "Oh wow, this is Diablo 3.5 if Blizzard actually did something special to the Frozen Orb build".

This build is particularly taxing if you have all these orbs moving about AND screen-fulls of water (the water that is shallow but covers the entire floor); I have never seen 0.1fps before, but I have now.

Just avoid any water until GGG fix that. Just simple, shallow water causes a huge problem with this build.
Last edited by georgepine on Oct 20, 2019, 7:42:00 AM
"
georgepine wrote:
If I had known about Volatile Dead working like this I would have stepped on the nightmare that Diablo 3 has become a lot sooner.

It's basically greater greater multiple projectiles (GGMP) fiery Frozen Orb. It's a part of Diablo 3 that I used to play like crazy but I can't stand listening to or even thinking about the company connected to it.

It's completely useable at L52 with the staff and if you stack fire multiplier, once those orbs speed toward the target, that target is as good as dead no matter what it is. If all those orbs hit and there's nothing to pull all of them away, they may as well just raise their hands and submit to death.

It does rely on Desecrate being on Cast on Damage Taken and you want to take as much damage as you can survive in a hit to trigger the orb explosion's maximum capability, because when they explode, even the Abyssal portals with all that stuff pouring out of them vaporizes in a hellish-killing-your-frame-rate-like-I've-never-seen-before fire damage in a single-multiple-massive-boom with 10 orbs being spawned in the desecrate on top of the 10 you've got after trash-mobs get killed by them.

The damage from each orb is really strong- and the only reason it's not nerfed is because they can target away from where you want them to go as they lock on to stuff off-screen. But the good news is, these orbs have some kind of projectile acceleration- they really go fast once they get going and go way off screen.

If you've got just 1 exalt and 50 chaos, you can try this out.

It's not as powerful as my current L92 Chieftain with molten balls (because it's so fast) but all you think about is "Oh wow, this is Diablo 3.5 if Blizzard actually did something special to the Frozen Orb build".

This build is particularly taxing if you have all these orbs moving about AND screen-fulls of water (the water that is shallow but covers the entire floor); I have never seen 0.1fps before, but I have now.

Just avoid any water until GGG fix that. Just simple, shallow water causes a huge problem with this build.


Sorry for the delayed replies. Work has been more then insane here.

But it sounds like you should try some of the other builds in my repertoire:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo340uFCQ3yd32elpTqYgLw
Some of these builds really will melt your computer. I lost a graphics card to one in particular. Why do I do this to myself again?...
Last edited by Sir_Ramsis_XIII on Oct 30, 2019, 10:29:02 PM
I've been enjoying this but trying to figure out one thing....

I don't see any way to actually generate endurance charges with this setup. They don't generate from either the Cast When Damage Taken or Cast While Channeling fire skills. What am I missing?

I feel like we miss out on a fair bit of regen and damage by not generating endurance charges and have a lot of ascendancy points not doing much of anything.

I'm still pretty new, so maybe I overlooked something?
"
Iarwin wrote:
I've been enjoying this but trying to figure out one thing....

I don't see any way to actually generate endurance charges with this setup. They don't generate from either the Cast When Damage Taken or Cast While Channeling fire skills. What am I missing?

I feel like we miss out on a fair bit of regen and damage by not generating endurance charges and have a lot of ascendancy points not doing much of anything.

I'm still pretty new, so maybe I overlooked something?


"Get a ring with Curse Enemies with Warlords Mark on Hit. This is our main generation for Endurance Charges. There are alternatives for SSF players though. e.g. i.e. too wit. igloo: Enduring Cry."

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