CI and stun

accidental dbl post...srry
IGN= Velrixina
Last edited by Velrik on Mar 14, 2013, 10:39:42 PM
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Hi. Yes, double post. However, the original "CI and stun" thread seems locked: I couldn't post a reply there. So I use this thread instead.

In the original thread "CI and stun" the question was whether is CI ailment messed up on design or by accident. I haven't found the answer to this question there. Mark wrote that same build produces same stun threshold; do notice that hp build is not the same as CI build. It's just not answering the original poster's question. Well, actually, it's an insult for the brain.

Go babble like little children all you want, one thing is obvious: fix CI and ailments, by switching ailments mechanics from hp to hp OR es, whichever is higher. Because, if CI ailments are designed the messed up way on purpose: sado/maso party is on!

Forgive my French, for I'm as polite as the CI is in combination with ailments. Regards.


Not every vulnerability has to remain such.
I have wandered through insanity;
I have walked the spiral out.
Heard its twisted dreamed inanity
In a whisper, in a shout.
In the babbling cacophony
The refrains are all the same:
"[permutations of humanity]
are unworthy of the name!"
"
Skivverus wrote:


Not every vulnerability has to remain such.

So you can kill other monsters while you die. GG.
So hm you want CI to have the same susceptivity to aliments as life ? Soon enough Life build would cry wanting have 100% chaos res too I guess ?
"
0versky wrote:
So hm you want CI to have the same susceptivity to aliments as life ? Soon enough Life build would cry wanting have 100% chaos res too I guess ?

Life-based builds already have a fair few advantages. The ability to cast from life, easier access to regen, access to life potions, more flexibility to stack armor/evasion from gear, the ability to go EB/acro/MoM, etc etc.

If you think you need to cripple CI by making them get stunned every other hit unless they run Chayula or go way out of the way to grab unwavering, then more power to you. All these CI limitations basically make it impossible for anyone to run CI outside of very late-game situations with gear worth many, many exalts.
"
UnderOmerta wrote:
"
0versky wrote:
So hm you want CI to have the same susceptivity to aliments as life ? Soon enough Life build would cry wanting have 100% chaos res too I guess ?

All these CI limitations basically make it impossible for anyone to run CI outside of very late-game situations with gear worth many, many exalts.


My current char in ambush (89 summoner witch at time of writing) went CI in the late 60s, and has played 90% solo self-found. Of the gear I have gotten through trading, none of it was acquired for the purposes of improving my survivability as a CI char.

The most exalts I've had at once is 12, which came from a windripper that dropped that I sold about an ex cheaper than any of the others listed at that time. Most of those ex got converted to chaos, most of that chaos got spent rolling maps.

The challenges presented while using CI do not require GG gear to overcome, game knowledge and staying aware while playing suffice just fine.
http://www.twitch.tv/exhortatory
"
exhortatory wrote:
89 summoner witch

This alone should invalidate your entire position. I know summoners that can run 77/8s with about 2k life because they can sit the entire map inside their bubbles and surrounded by minions and pretty much never get hit. 89 is also not at all hard in this league considering 78 maps cost about 10c each and at 89 you can still get about 10% xp per pack size 77/8 map.

Saying you're self-found means fuck all. I know someone in Ambush that has found a Shavs and a Voltaxic. He's now running lowlife Crit Bow with mostly "self found" gear.
From a large amount of experience with CI, I can say that as it is now, it is honestly not worthwhile. Sure, if you have a 1k ES chest and a 500 ES helm lying around, it could provide enough ES for it to have some merit... But why not sell the chest for a Shav's and get 30% damage while you're at it?

Honestly, I've always preferred being weaker to status ailments. I liked the change where they were based off of your pre-CI life instead, so that I would be stunlocked in a level 5 zone on my 90 character, but I agreed that it was a fair downside to having 6-9k ES with near no passives. However... Nowadays, there's a wide variety of enemies that are able to exploit your weakness (tentacles are a frail woman's enemy for more than one reason), weaker energy shield items in general (I can only roll 72 ES on a helmet now? And 48 on boots/gloves?!) and that's only AFTER they nerfed ES right before Open Beta so that my once amazing 1204 ES chest dropped to something like 880. Since then, they've added higher defense rolls on all armors, so you can get up to 10 more base ES and a little more %. And for Open Beta, CI was nerfed to 40% more on a path of 4 nodes instead of just one node. All in all, it was a massive nerf that pushed CI as a node back from being a pickup in the 60's with decent gear to late 70's if you had good items already. And now? CI is now 12% more ES. At the same cost.

All in all, CI used to be OP. You could get up to 20k ES if you put effort into it, and with a Chayula and a Dream Fragments, you weren't going to die with 20k ES unless you tried. Personally, I ran 6-8k ES with minimal ES nodes with a focus on damage, because that was the defense of a cold crit witch; you froze the screen and probably killed it all before it unfroze. Nothing was going to stomp your face into the ground harder than a rhoa, and past desync, those weren't an issue. Now, though? Using dual wands is kind of a pipe dream. Focusing on offense got decimated. Hell, ES has been nerfed so many times that even with above average gear, you're only going to have as much ES as a life build, albeit at half the node cost. As for why you have half as many nodes in ES as people do life? ES nodes suck. They suck donkey balls. There are EIGHT ES nodes on the tree that give more ES than basic hybrid defense nodes. 8-12-8 for the witch, a 12 for the scion, a 12 near CI, and 8-8-8 on the path to more ES from CI. The 12 near CI can hardly be counted, though, since going to it costs 2 nodes since you won't be grabbing PA on a CI build.

In short, CI as it is now is weaker than ever before, which is to be expected after being nerfed from 100% More to 80% to 50% to 40% to 12%... After nerfing the gear itself. If you're going to nerf the upside of going CI so damn hard, I feel like you could reciprocate and buff some of its weaknesses as well. (I'm not going into GR/ZO in this post because those are life wannabes, not CI)
Why even have ES exist?
Every change just makes it more and more like life.

Also everybody seems to ignore that ES gives you 50% stun resist which you can stack with 38% in the tree, and/or Cast When Stunned + immortal call + Inc Duration
Last edited by Xendran on Apr 20, 2014, 9:53:50 AM

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