Bossrooms are a joke

this miniarenas are a joke tbh
the engine is not old
no
it is outdated

Not a fan either. Takes away tactical playstyle and makes brute force the favored method.

'tactical playstyle' usually devolves into simple kiting, which is as degenerate strategy as any, and is implicitly anti-melee

in theory, you are right - in practice, if kiting works, everyone will kite.

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grepman wrote:

'tactical playstyle' usually devolves into simple kiting, which is as degenerate strategy as any, and is implicitly anti-melee

in theory, you are right - in practice, if kiting works, everyone will kite.

Large arenas with environmental hazards, much like cruel+ final aspirant trials in lab or Lair of the Hydra. I'd reckon it'd be a lot harder to kite well if you're trying to avoid not getting blown up by things like lava geysers, spikes, electrical currents, etc.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

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grepman wrote:

'tactical playstyle' usually devolves into simple kiting, which is as degenerate strategy as any, and is implicitly anti-melee

in theory, you are right - in practice, if kiting works, everyone will kite.

Large arenas with environmental hazards, much like cruel+ final aspirant trials in lab or Lair of the Hydra. I'd reckon it'd be a lot harder to kite well if you're trying to avoid not getting blown up by things like lava geysers, spikes, electrical currents, etc.

Map bosses are commonly skipped either because they are dangerous (slightly more than rest of map bosses) or those fights take too long (most likely due to them being staged). You want to add a feature that is very controversial, just check on the debate about Labyrinth and all that is connected with it. Most importantly, biggest problem with killing map bosses is how unrewarding they are compared to the effort expended. Unless GGG finally come up with a system to make map bosses worth the time to kill them, this will not be popular idea.

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Baron01 wrote:

You want to add a feature that is very controversial, just check on the debate about Labyrinth and all that is connected with it.

GGG target players who are not willing to use their brain too much and prefer mindlessely smashing everything without risks, that has been clear for quite a while now, nothing new.

There have been many things done to make bosses worht your time by the way, and I'm pretty sure that people don't skip bosses as much as many like to pretend around here.

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Fruz wrote:

There have been many things done to make bosses worht your time by the way, and I'm pretty sure that people don't skip bosses as much as many like to pretend around here.

Care to elaborate on things that make map bosses worth?

Mind you, I'm killing all map bosses no matter whether they are phased, dangerous or not. Map boss is the only creature that can drop +2 map, however, even with 157 out of 159 map bonus getting +2 map is very rare situation. Only other mechanic in play I'm aware of that make boss loot better are shaper strongholds. You absolutely want to kill shaper strongold's map boss unless you plan to keep the stronghold in place to do ping pong influence.

GGG tried to balance map bosses, reshuffled them around several time, but some bosses are still significantly more dangerous or mechanically annoying than the rest. Bosses are also far less important to map sustain than pack size roll and additional magic monsters.

I would love to have a system implemented by GGG that makes map bosses play significantly more important role in map sustain. I believe that map boss should always drop -1 level map, if you clear map to have less than 50 remaining monsters, map boss should drop map of the same level. +1 or +2 maps should be based on RNG roll.

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grepman wrote:

'tactical playstyle' usually devolves into simple kiting, which is as degenerate strategy as any, and is implicitly anti-melee

in theory, you are right - in practice, if kiting works, everyone will kite.

There is a large gab between what you are talking about, and making arenas so small many playstyles simply can't move around there at all like they normally do and end up just getting gutted because they don't have leech due to their skills.

I thought that it was kind of obvious but alright :
- Atlas bonus completion
- Shaper influence's spreading
- Shaper's stronghold
- The +2 Bonus of course
- Pantheon power upgrades
- Some prophecies (that you could complete by killing low level bosses, but that is pretty much a waste of time compared to killing a map boss, right ?)

GGG is not balancing the game only around players would go for 40/40 and completely fill their Atlas, and all those things do count.
And those things really show that GGG is trying to put more emphasis in killing bosses but are being very cautious about it imo.


I definitely cannot say what the "right" balance is, but I know that it would not take a lot for the meta to shift into a "boss farming meta" where everybody would run short map with an easy on phased boss just for that and it might just reduce "diversity" in term of what maps people are running even more.

I am personally never skipping bosses unless I know what their are going to be deadly as hell and I'm playing HC with a character that isn't tanky/strong enough to make it worth a try pretty much.

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Baron01 wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

There have been many things done to make bosses worht your time by the way, and I'm pretty sure that people don't skip bosses as much as many like to pretend around here.

Care to elaborate on things that make map bosses worth?

Mind you, I'm killing all map bosses no matter whether they are phased, dangerous or not. Map boss is the only creature that can drop +2 map, however, even with 157 out of 159 map bonus getting +2 map is very rare situation. Only other mechanic in play I'm aware of that make boss loot better are shaper strongholds. You absolutely want to kill shaper strongold's map boss unless you plan to keep the stronghold in place to do ping pong influence.

GGG tried to balance map bosses, reshuffled them around several time, but some bosses are still significantly more dangerous or mechanically annoying than the rest. Bosses are also far less important to map sustain than pack size roll and additional magic monsters.

I would love to have a system implemented by GGG that makes map bosses play significantly more important role in map sustain. I believe that map boss should always drop -1 level map, if you clear map to have less than 50 remaining monsters, map boss should drop map of the same level. +1 or +2 maps should be based on RNG roll.

I've been asking this for ages, about map bosses should be a bigger part of map sustain. One time i even mathed it out in complete detail for more convincing post but that was years ago.

Now, the QQ goes that "OMG i can't handle bosses i will just die it's something i hate so please gg don't make bosses mandatory".

I'm a little different, i see for example still vaal construct as the best boss they ever did. What i like about it is this, it's rather easy to deal with the mechanics when you are paying attention(no need twitch reaction or super concentration) and it is easy to see when they boss is doing killer moves, but the moment you stop moving from the obvious(or telegraphed) big moves then you generally just die. That is perfect, this isn't countertrike bosses should not require twitch reactions but rather a fair reaction time + knowledge of the boss mechanics and that way you can also allow yourself bosses to drop more of the maps without the "bosses = die = game ruined"-argument holding up.

But wait wait, did again it surface that death penalty is just adding negative things to game. Oh yes it did, but i won't elaborate that's a whole diffrent can of worms i really am not bothered arguing with the ignorance of forums whiteknights and imbeciles.