CD-less traps should throw 3 traps at a time by default, with damage lowered to balance

Reason being they're basically *never* used without clustertrap and/or +1 trap gloves; a big part of traps is being able to throw multiple at a time to trigger multiple spells/attacks to overlap.

It's kinda like the old reduced mana working on mana reservation, it holds an extra gem and/or glove slot hostage because the numbers have been balanced around assuming you use them, depriving you of real choices. The dps amps provided by clustertrap and +1 gloves is so out-of-line high that you're completely handicapping yourself to not use them.


So instead re-adjust some numbers:

Make all the cd-less trap skills (fire/ice/lightning/explosive) throw 2 additional traps by default, and lower their base hit damage and damage effectiveness by ~55% (fire trap's burning ground can probably stay the same or get nerfed just a little to compensate the extra coverage), so that they'd wind up dealing a bit more total damage by default if all 3 traps hit. This total damage boost will be balanced out by other sources of additional traps being relatively weaker now that you already throw multiple.

Do the same to trap support, make it throw 2 additional traps and provide a scaling damage penalty instead of the scaling inc trap throwing speed, probably to ~50% or 55% less at level 20.

Then adjust clustertrap and multitrap to have lower damage penalties, while still adding 2 more traps... instead of 36% less and 31% less damage at level 20 respectively, make them something like 16% less and 11% less, which puts them on-par with other support gems instead of being much stronger (assuming all traps hit the same target, that'd make them about 40% and 48% more dps supports instead of the crazy 92% and 107% more dps they provide right now).




The end result of this is the trap skills on their own feel better, getting better coverage and total damage by default, while clustertrap and multitrap get nerfed down to the strength of typical support gems, still good dps gains and nice coverage. This makes them feel less mandatory while still keeping them a good choice. It also lowers the relative power gain of having +1 trap gloves down to a more reasonable level. All in all with the numbers i provided the peak potential dps for traps should remain roughly the same, but players won't be forced into having to shoehorn certain supports or items into every build for fear of losing too much damage if they don't.

isn't this the same as multiple attacks support or GMP? Or spell cascade for self-cast AOE spells? I think every skill-category has one mandatory support wasting a slot. Most actually two, because there is the blanket +40% more damage support that you really really want to use.

No.

I'm using fire traps scaling the burning ground only.
No need to nerf it as it's far from OP ( even if slightly ).
And I don't give a crap about having more traps thrown at the same time.

Traps without cooldown are already an aberration imo, no need to make it 'worse' thank you.



And traps do NOT need a buff if anything, like seriously.
This thread is essentially asking for adding a free socket to one of the already most broken mechanisms in the game atm.

Well, maybe there should be no CD-less traps instead?

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Fruz wrote:

No.

I'm using fire traps scaling the burning ground only.
No need to nerf it as it's far from OP ( even if slightly ).
And I don't give a crap about having more traps thrown at the same time.

Traps without cooldown are already an aberration imo, no need to make it 'worse' thank you.



And traps do NOT need a buff if anything, like seriously.
This thread is essentially asking for adding a free socket to one of the already most broken mechanisms in the game atm.

A) i said without nerfing the base DoT on burning ground or only nerfing it slightly.

B) This isn't asking for a free socket OR a net buff, it's asking to have some of the out-of-line power of clustertrap and +1 gloves siphoned into the base traps themselves, putting clustertrap and +1 gloves on par with other supports and items instead of well above them. The net result of using a trap + clustertrap is mostly the same damage potential (slightly lower total damage but with higher coverage), and the net result of using +1 gloves on top of that is a bit of a nerf in terms of dps potential compared to now. Not to mention it lowers the potential for cheesing bosses by setting as many traps as possible underneath them before the fight starts, as each of those traps will carry much lower damage.

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UlfgardLeo wrote:

isn't this the same as multiple attacks support or GMP? Or spell cascade for self-cast AOE spells? I think every skill-category has one mandatory support wasting a slot. Most actually two, because there is the blanket +40% more damage support that you really really want to use.

Not really, because the difference between clustertrap and multistrike/gmp/spell cascade is clustertrap right now is outright optimal for both clearing and single-target; those other supports are usually not.

With a few exceptions, GMP lowers single-target dps while improving clearing. Multistrike is generally pretty bad for single-target, both because it leaves you vulnerable for longer and because it forces you to target swap if possible, while also being a fairly low dps amp even if neither of those are an issue. Spell Cascade could *maybe* be comparable for the few skills it actually works on, but even then it's weaker than most other supports for single-target.


Clustertrap is the best for BOTH. It's 92% more single-target damage due to overlaps AND a great clearing boost. My changes lower than single-target dps boost from clustertrap down to ~40%, which is about what spell cascade and multistrike are, and also turn it into a decent clearing boost instead of a vital one. It becomes an option, not a necessity.

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Shppy wrote:

A) i said without nerfing the base DoT on burning ground or only nerfing it slightly.

B) This isn't asking for a free socket OR a net buff, it's asking to have some of the out-of-line power of clustertrap and +1 gloves siphoned into the base traps themselves, putting clustertrap and +1 gloves on par with other supports and items instead of well above them. The net result of using a trap + clustertrap is mostly the same damage potential (slightly lower total damage but with higher coverage), and the net result of using +1 gloves on top of that is a bit of a nerf in terms of dps potential compared to now. Not to mention it lowers the potential for cheesing bosses by setting as many traps as possible underneath them before the fight starts, as each of those traps will carry much lower damage.

Well, you did suggest slightly nerfing ( which I added in brackets ).

Regarding B) ... You idea is to have about the same damage if all 3 traps hit ( which is easy for auto targetting (=arc for example) traps or requires AOE investement for other skills ) if not a bit more, without cluster/multiple traps, right ?
Then, it's a straigth coverage buff, right ? It might be overal the same damage wise for setups using cluster/multiple traps but this change would allow people to use other supports instead since traps would have ridiculous coverage by default, and it could potentially lead to actually more damage ?
I'm not sure about what are the optimized crazy trap setups.

I agree that if those supports are mandatory ( which they really seem to be in most cases ), something should probably be done about it ( space the traps more ? nerf damage more ? ), but I don't think that adding traps by default would be a good way to go.