Melee needs Tuning - ASAP, Like Yesterday

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robmafia wrote:

it was the ENTIRE point, since it was my premise and the single point you decided to disagree with and argue about. hence, your posts about survivability.

(my premise = melee is generally ok compared to ranged because of the trade-off. less dps, more survivability)

i can prove this with more quotes, as well.

i guess it's time for you to accuse yourself of lying?

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And yes you are talking about deep delving because you keep mentioning your gladiators tank ability which for delve is ONLY RELEVANT AT LARGE DEPTH

delve was a league, you know.

and the main point with delve was facetanking aul. but it's not like i didn't facetank chimera all league, either.

no idea why you'd jump to the bizarre (and dead wrong) conclusion that tankiness only matters in the mine. i seem to remember months of complaints about the syndicate being too hard...

The ENTIRE POINT, as you put it, is STILL INCORRECT. You take that exact same build and give it kb instead of melee gems and it WILL SURVIVE BETTER, because it IS IN DANGER LESS OFTEN

And again I DON'T CARE either way, YOU keep bringing it up, NOBODY ELSE CARES

I have been for ten damn pages talking about MEME SPLASH MELEE and how shit those gems are compared to almost any ranged build

BEFORE THIS THREAD EVEN STARTED we already went through this, ffs

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Nichelle_GGG wrote:

Hi Exiles!

While we encourage community discussions please keep in mind that attacking other players is a breach of our Code of Conduct.

Sorry for the poor humour, but does this apply to PvP too :P

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sidtherat wrote:

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robmafia wrote:

(my premise = melee is generally ok compared to ranged because of the trade-off. less dps, more survivability)

i can prove this with more quotes, as well.

quotes.. lol. you - the one and only source of 'truth' - can prove that melee is ok with quotes :) amazing, ill literally take a photo and then print it. priceless

you misunderstood.

i can prove that was what the argument was about. no, i can't prove melee's fine with quotes. i can prove that was the argument, though.

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sidtherat wrote:

i know it is nice to feel 'unique' but there is a reason why noone takes you seriously - because melee sucks. your junk melee gladiator is tanky? cool, wander can be JUST AS TANKY but deal LOTS more damage with 10 times better clear speed.

but why bother when absurd tankiness (or is it? block does nothing vs dots) is rather not needed and if there is anything that carries people it is AOE damage and general coverage. even the most AOE'ish 'melee' skills are GARBAGE compared to tornado shot, KB, winter orb or even damn Blight

not to mention that you have literally no evidence proving you actually know what you are talking about. on the contrary your posting history is VERY sketchy..

obvious bs is obvious.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

The ENTIRE POINT, as you put it, is STILL INCORRECT. You take that exact same build and give it kb instead of melee gems and it WILL SURVIVE BETTER, because it IS IN DANGER LESS OFTEN

And again I DON'T CARE either way, YOU keep bringing it up, NOBODY ELSE CARES

I have been for ten damn pages talking about MEME SPLASH MELEE and how shit those gems are compared to almost any ranged build

BEFORE THIS THREAD EVEN STARTED we already went through this, ffs

then do it. show me this near-immortal KB build.

you won't. because you can't.

there's a reason why one of us can clear all content with ease and the other can't make it past level 90 and needs to rely on lab carries and complains about the death penalty...

- The main problem of melee vs ranged is multiple projectile/projectile distance.

Ranged can shoot 1.5 screen away and erase all group of mobs without much difficulty to aim, without much need of a lot of shots thks to those aoe explosions and without taking much damage thanks to the fact the mobs that are at 1.5 screen don t even see the ranged player.

The melee player need to come at "melee" distance, at that distance all the group of monsters see the melee and are shooting/attacking at melee.

Melee skills have usually less aoe coverage so only 1-2 group get killed.

Sure you have some elementalist-shock prolif builds using fake melee blade flurry able to clear whole map but this is the exception.

Imo in order to make melee at equal footing from ranged, max projectiles distance need to be reduced on ranged skills/disminishing return to damage depending on distance of projectiles should be implemented.


Melee will always suck compared to ranged because of the spread of projectiles and the interaction with skills that can explode whole groups, even tho both melee and ranged can 1 shot a pack.


Also why ranged archetype get mods like +1 proj on their rare items?
+1 proj is insane for clear speed and nothing a melee player can get will be as efficient.


- Melee builds can hit hard and 1h+shield are tankier than ranged on average, however considering the spread of ranged projectiles and how a pack of mob die after 1-2 shot, ranged will forever clear quicker and take less damage. Melee can use block-enducharge-whatever, they will always take more damage reducing their effective life pool to the same level than a ranged build since they(melee) take more hits on average.

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Head_Less wrote:

...

Yup exactly thats the thing. RNG defenses to the rescue. Get hit 10 times more than a normal build? Make sure you get only hit 1/10 of the time.

Thats why I dont understand why Marauder and Duellist skilltrees have literally nothing against spells and why all the block nodes are so undervalued and bad. There should be a huge 20/30 attack/ spell block wheel somewhere between them or whatever.

Melee would need the Dodge Wheel way more than the typical bow ranger build.

A logical defense would be that the builds that dont get hit by shit ever stack ehp in order to not get oneshot by the few attacks that they are hit while the builds that get hit by the whole screen all the time should have more means to invest in RNG defenses in order to not get fucked up by everything hitting them at the same time. Strange enough the class preferences in defense according to the skilltree are quite the opposite of that (except for witch energy shield and Templar MoM that makes sense).

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Head_Less wrote:

- Melee builds can hit hard and 1h+shield are tankier than ranged on average, however considering the spread of ranged projectiles and how a pack of mob die after 1-2 shot, ranged will forever clear quicker and take less damage. Melee can use block-enducharge-whatever, they will always take more damage reducing their effective life pool to the same level than a ranged build since they(melee) take more hits on average.

basically.

except for other mechanics.

with life/es on block and a good chunk of armor, a gladiator pretty much needs successive hits (~.18*.18*.18) with 2+ hits being rather high damage in order to die.

a ranged char can quickly get 2-3 shot (or as everyone says now, 1-shot) and die.

a char with good block and spell block pretty much needs to stand in degens/DoT lasers in order to die... or stand in a core malachai/etc slam.


obviously, ranged can clear faster. but they're not more durable, even when taking less damage received into consideration.

I guess the fact that monsters don't jump on players 'enough' makes range much easier to play .... that was until the syndicate, which got ... nerfed.
It still can hurt in high maps with deadly mobs though, but not enough to threaten good range builds who obliterates them anyway ?
I'm not completely sure.


There is a balance problem for sure, but a bit more interesting mobs might also help imho.

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robmafia wrote:

then do it. show me this near-immortal KB build.

you won't. because you can't.

there's a reason why one of us can clear all content with ease and the other can't make it past level 90 and needs to rely on lab carries and complains about the death penalty...

I don't know if you're just incapable of reading or what, but again everything you've said here is 100% lies. Which begs the question why are you even here to begin with?

I don't need to create a "near-immortal" kb build, it just needs to have an amount of eHP which is AS PROPORTIONAL to the amount of incoming damage as its melee counterpart. In the case of KB this is roughly 0 (or occasional random damage), so basically any normal amount of eHP to survive one-shots is sufficient. Melee not only clears slower, it CANNOT get away with using that little eHP - it isn't a choice, it's NECESSITY. For ranged it's a CHOICE. I don't know how you have a difficult time with this.

And the level 90 thing you keep repeating is just factually not true, at this point you're just embarrassing yourself. something something HURR DURR 90 something something - what a waste of internet bandwidth.

This is really simple stuff but I know your next post is going to be "ZOMG WUT LIES" so I'll spell it out in exacting detail for you:
1. "show me this near-immortal kb build" I mean a KB juggernaut would suffice or see the 2nd paragraph, sooooooo...
2. "won't because you can't" I mean literally anybody can make a tanky KB build, sorry but I've got better things to do with my time which brings me to point 3
3. "cant make it past 90" I mean that was proven false like months ago, and it can be easily verified that after getting to 90 2 days after that ridiculous nonsensical garbage from certain ignorant people, I have since reverted back to my regular routine of quitting at around level 70 to 75 WHICH SHOULD INDICATE to anyone with a brain that stopping at 75 is a choice and not a limitation
4. "needs to rely on lab carries" also false, I don't "need" to rely on anything, I choose to pay for lab carries in specific cases because it's sometimes simply objectively better than running it yourself (and also because fucking christ IT'S NOT FUN CONTENT)
5. "complains about the death penalty" lol like what in the actual fuck? you don't even get an excuse for this one, I've literally in my entire life never once complained about the goddamn death penalty UNLESS BY DEATH PENALTY YOU MEAN DYING IN HC LOL

TLDR go home rob, you're drunk

PS. How about you stop deflecting and get back to the topic of glacial hammer/dual strike/heavy strike/viper strike/puncture(melee)/etc against KB or mirage archer or even RF or cold snap or literally any spell I guess, SINCE THAT IS THE TOPIC BASICALLY. YOU KNOW WHAT TOPIC MEANS RIGHT?

I'm pretty sure I'm done responding to you since you literally seem incapable of making sense