Make a solo player reduced-connection mode

Sometimes we got a shity connection, like using WiFi with lot of disconnection, but it should be ok for a solo party. Except it isn't. Even in solo party it is required to have a full time connection with low latency with the server. That shouldn't be required, I mean, connections can be reduced to update the character time to times, during map transition for example, not every milliseconds, when playing as single player.
This will free some server resources as well.

Last edited by obi36 on Aug 15, 2018, 5:02:32 PM
Last bumped on Sep 14, 2018, 6:51:00 AM
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Always online with maximal dependency on a remote server is a DRM system. Any change would reduce its efficiency.
Organic chemistry is a weird thing. If you add a spoon of shit to a barrel of jam you'll get a barrel of shit.
All calculations regarding damage, chance to hit/miss etc .... are being calculated server side.
And GGG does not want to let those algorithms and such be known by everybody, the only way to prevent hacks is to have it stored in the server.
Which is why what you are asking is impossible with the current system.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
I don't see the point to keep all on server-side because of "calculation secret preservation".
There's tons of great multi-players games that can be play offline (Borderland 2, starcraft 2). It will be still hard to discover such algorithm on client-side too, unless to be a very powerful hacker (and have some time to loose). Even so, such of algorithms can be deducted indirectly, and we already found some formulas on the PoE wiki pages.
If it's just for some calculations secrets, I don't see the point.

Last edited by obi36 on Aug 16, 2018, 1:01:35 PM
I don't think GGG's primary concern was DRM. It was cheaters. Map hackers, item dupers, etc. Having most of the hackable events occur server side was a core design principle at the start of POE if I recall correctly. I don't see that changing at all. And if it did then GGG may need to recruit a new player base. I'd certainly be out of here.
POE Serenity Prayer: GGG, grant me the serenity to accept the RNG I cannot change,
the courage to challenge any unbalanced content, and the wisdom to avoid the forums.
Mad: "Oh, it's simple and if you insist... I just think you're a dick. That's all."
QFT: 4TRY4C&4NO
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Phaeded wrote:
I don't think GGG's primary concern was DRM. It was cheaters. Map hackers, item dupers, etc. Having most of the hackable events occur server side was a core design principle at the start of POE if I recall correctly. I don't see that changing at all. And if it did then GGG may need to recruit a new player base. I'd certainly be out of here.

Nope, it's DRM. Otherwise, SSF mode would be offline.
Organic chemistry is a weird thing. If you add a spoon of shit to a barrel of jam you'll get a barrel of shit.
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obi36 wrote:
I don't see the point to keep all on server-side because of "calculation secret preservation".
There's tons of great multi-players games that can be play offline (Borderland 2, starcraft 2).


Except those are NOT online games, they are single player games with online elements and a price tag.
Ancestral Bond. It's a thing that does stuff. -Vipermagi

He who controls the pants controls the galaxy. - Rick & Morty S3E1
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obi36 wrote:
I don't see the point to keep all on server-side because of "calculation secret preservation".
There's tons of great multi-players games that can be play offline (Borderland 2, starcraft 2). It will be still hard to discover such algorithm on client-side too, unless to be a very powerful hacker (and have some time to loose). Even so, such of algorithms can be deducted indirectly, and we already found some formulas on the PoE wiki pages.
If it's just for some calculations secrets, I don't see the point.


Stacraft isn't mostly based on RNG, PoE is.
If you can find where the RNG is decided, you might be able to change it to your advantage.

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lagwin1980 wrote:
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obi36 wrote:
I don't see the point to keep all on server-side because of "calculation secret preservation".
There's tons of great multi-players games that can be play offline (Borderland 2, starcraft 2).


Except those are NOT online games, they are single player games with online elements and a price tag.

Yeah, I could you could say that too ( I don't know Borderlands ).

Plus PoE is about beating PvE ( and RNG ) faster than others, you are only fighting against the content.
Starcraft is PvP, the difficulty is not the content itself if you want to get competitive.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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Fruz wrote:
the only way to prevent hacks is to have it stored in the server.

Though, there's a problem with this twofold:

  • There are a number of other at least partly-comparable games that allow offline hosting just fine. (Waframe, for instance, runs all missions on the CLIENT)

  • The "server-side-only" hasn't prevented hacks from happening before. And it appears that there are still ungoing hacks that have been being run for years now. (see: Standard labyrinth times)



A lot of the arguments I see against any sort of change usually boil down to two similar misconceptions:

  • The current PoE is somehow with a track record with zero successful "breaks" in gameplay integrity (hacking, cheating, etc)

  • That it's not a question, perhaps, of coding talent, where GGG is, to put it lightly, on the green side.


Like, as I mentioned above, the biggest example showing it CAN be done is PoE's only real peer in the "online F2P" category, Warframe. Because their budget allows for FAR less money spent on servers, only social (relay/"Town") instances (and PvP) are actually hosted on the server side. All actual missions (including the open-world free-roam ones) are hosted by one of the players in the mission. Yet somehow, the game is programmed to be secure enough that hacking client-level data hasn't compromised the game. (e.g, at mission end the server carefully validates the information sent back by the client to see if it's kosher)

Also, while it's a dirty word, Diablo 3 also has taken some steps to demonstrate that you can have security without "always treating the client/customer like a criminal." Namely, that Diablo 3 kinda breaks from Chris Wilson's 2015-era claim that the only networking modes were server-side predictive and deterministic lockstep... Because D3, like WarCraft 3, actually uses NON-deterministic Peer-2-Peer Lockstep, which has roughly the BEST advantages of BOTH the deterministic lockstep (lack of desync) and predictive (lack of lag) methods. It's just that most colleges give the conventional wisdom that it's very insecure... But Blizzard made it secure. So that's SOMETHING D3 has going for it, admist the terrible gameplay design choices and their abysmal handling of publishing/operations.

So, all told, what's desires is very, very distinctly possible. It's only a question of whether GGG has the capability to do it, and whether they want to let the game stagnate, or if they want it to evolve.
Rufalius, hybrid Aura/Arc/Mana Guardian | Hemorae, TS Raider | Wuru, Ele Hit Wand Trickster
As I mentioned before though, PoE's gameplay is heavily based on RNG, and I don't think that warframe is at all, which makes quite a difference.
I've only seen the game couple of times though, so I could be wrong of course.

Now you're mentioning the "big events" not hackable at the end of a mission in Warframe ... I'm sure you know how much it just cannot fit PoE in its current state, as the big rewards aren't just at the end, but pretty well spread through the whole map or whatever you're doing.

About D3, it has also less calculations (=you can't miss) if I recall correctly from what Chris said in an old podcast, so it's not fully comparable ... but I don't doubt that Blizzards dev team beats GGG's technically any time, and they should given the experience and the money that Blizzard has.


If PoE would get only updated once in a while, what would keep you from having a script that just re-rolls loot until it's amazing in between server "updates" for example ?
Adding security "keys" to all entities to verify their integrity at every server "update" ? That would seem heavy ....
I mean, there surely are other ways to deal with such things, but would it be better than actually rolling the RnG on the server ? would it be worth it for GGG to research and experiment such things, given that the current system is working for everybody with a stable-enough connection, and that such connections are ... well more and more common now I'm sure ?
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Last edited by Fruz on Aug 17, 2018, 11:18:02 AM

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