Challenge for double corrupting gems is incredibly difficult

I have been playing for 8-12 hours a day since launch, and I have yet to be able to get any of the double corrupt gems. I have done close to 200, maybe more, temples and have gotten the T3 Gem room maybe 12 times. Now, from what I read it is 1/4 chance to get a +1, 1/4 chance for the quality to change, and 1/4 chance for the gem to turn vaal. That means each of the challenge is 1/16 tries.

I don't mind the challenges being gated behind a slight bit of RNG, but having 2 gates (spawning the t3 room and then getting the right corruptions) is a little too ridiculous. I have a level 90 and a lvl 97, 38 challenges done, and have yet to hit a single double corruption on the gems. I have resorted to spamming blood aqueducts, which spawns 7-8 temples per hour and if I'm lucky, 0-1 Tier 3 gem room.

I suggest A:increasing the chance for a double corrupt to 1/4, like Locus of Corruption room. OR B: make the Lapidary Lens 1 use at tier 2 room and 2 uses at tier 3 room. Both of these will really help challenge grinders like me.

I had a +1 bonus t3 room next to a +3 gem corrupt room. My 20-0 turned into a 20-0 vaaled.

Not doing this crappy content for this garbage, got a few nice things in temple but its something i no longer care todo.

People complain about lab and they make uber lab, ppl complain about breach timers and they apply to this league. Its like they are trolling us with content at this point.

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Wangwutang wrote:

I have been playing for 8-12 hours a day since launch, and I have yet to be able to get any of the double corrupt gems. I have done close to 200, maybe more, temples and have gotten the T3 Gem room maybe 12 times. Now, from what I read it is 1/4 chance to get a +1, 1/4 chance for the quality to change, and 1/4 chance for the gem to turn vaal. That means each of the challenge is 1/16 tries.

Are you seriously complaining that you didn't succeed at a 1/16 roll in 12 attempts? According to your own estimate (~1 attempt per hour) this challenge should take you about 16 hr of play time. As somebody going for 40 challenges, you are already prepared for things like that.

I am complaining that after a couple hundred hours I have only been able to get 12 attempts. The fact that it's not tradeable makes it even more upsetting.

I see you haven't read my post nor do you understand the challenge. You need 3 different outcomes, bringing the total attempts to an average of 48. Additionally, most people while mapping get 1-2 temples an hour, often not getting ANY Doryani's institutes in a day. My estimates of doing 7-8 temples an hour is by farming blood aqueducts in the MOST efficient way possible. It is extremely tedious with no end in sight because the outcomes are RNG. I have never had any problems with any challenges until this one. Even the end game grinds take about 12 hours of playtime without having to farm a lvl 61 zone for days.

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Wangwutang wrote:

I see you haven't read my post nor do you understand the challenge. You need 3 different outcomes, bringing the total attempts to an average of 48.

No, I think you fail at math here. If the chance of each outcome is 1/16 then you don't need 48 attempts to get 3 of those different outcomes. All 3 of them will happen in 16 attempts with average luck.

How many attempts per hour one can get is a different question. I was using your own estimate. And by that estimate, it will take you 16 hr with average luck. How much time in total you've played in the league is totally irrelevant. You didn't spend it all on this one challenge.

The league lasts 3 months. It doesn't seem unreasonable to have a challenge that takes 16 spawns of that room. You can get it once an hour, others can get it once 2-3 hours, but it's still nothing unheard of. There is a challenge to kill Uber Elder 20 times. That easily takes more time than getting 16 Doryani Institutes

As for it being non-sellable... Is your issue that you can buy 20 Uber Elder kills but can't buy this one? I wish all challenges were non-sellable, or rather, non-buyable. Buying challenges is totally lame.

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Kelvynn wrote:

with average luck.

At this point we can stop discussion. Because luck is not something that you can control.

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Kelvynn wrote:

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Wangwutang wrote:

I see you haven't read my post nor do you understand the challenge. You need 3 different outcomes, bringing the total attempts to an average of 48.

No, I think you fail at math here. If the chance of each outcome is 1/16 then you don't need 48 attempts to get 3 of those different outcomes. All 3 of them will happen in 16 attempts with average luck.

How many attempts per hour one can get is a different question. I was using your own estimate. And by that estimate, it will take you 16 hr with average luck. How much time in total you've played in the league is totally irrelevant. You didn't spend it all on this one challenge.

The league lasts 3 months. It doesn't seem unreasonable to have a challenge that takes 16 spawns of that room. You can get it once an hour, others can get it once 2-3 hours, but it's still nothing unheard of. There is a challenge to kill Uber Elder 20 times. That easily takes more time than getting 16 Doryani Institutes

As for it being non-sellable... Is your issue that you can buy 20 Uber Elder kills but can't buy this one? I wish all challenges were non-sellable, or rather, non-buyable. Buying challenges is totally lame.

1/4 for vaal, 1/4 for quality, and 1/4 for level. That means it's a 1/16 chance for it to go Vaal AND quality, 1/16 for vaal AND level, and 1/16 for quality and level. It's simple math. Yes, it's possible to get it in 16 tries, but on average it will take 48. The corruption challenges are perfectly fine. 1/4 Chance for brick, 1/4 for all white sockets, 1/4 for double corrupt, and 1/4 for poof. There is no combination of them, which makes the gemcutter's challenge that much harder. I don't know where you are getting your numbers from. Simple probability stats.

Anyhow, Uber elder is easy. Yes, you have the option to buy it. But you can also build characters to specifically farm it. Point is, killing Uber Elder does not involve pure RNG. You can complete it, just put a day or 2 into it and it's done. The "Use these devices" challenge is one of the challenges that is so time consuming and RNG dependent that it's very possible you play the entire league (which no one does), and still not have it completed.

Furthermore, my numbers involve mindlessly running blood aqueducts and being bored out of my mind. That is not fun. A challenge should be challenging, not frustrating and unreasonable.

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Wangwutang wrote:

... A challenge should be challenging, not frustrating and unreasonable.

Sadly, GGG does not see it this way for years now :(

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Wangwutang wrote:

1/4 for vaal, 1/4 for quality, and 1/4 for level. That means it's a 1/16 chance for it to go Vaal AND quality, 1/16 for vaal AND level, and 1/16 for quality and level. It's simple math. Yes, it's possible to get it in 16 tries, but on average it will take 48. The corruption challenges are perfectly fine. 1/4 Chance for brick, 1/4 for all white sockets, 1/4 for double corrupt, and 1/4 for poof. There is no combination of them, which makes the gemcutter's challenge that much harder. I don't know where you are getting your numbers from. Simple probability stats.

Actually your math is slightly off as well. Consider this: You aim to achieve 3 specific outcomes that each have an individual chance of 1/16. Hence until the first correct corruption you have a 3/16 chance of getting a corruption you need for a challenge. Afterwards you are in a new situation. You have already completed 1 challenge, therefore only two desirable options remain. This leaves you with a 2/16 chance for a success in the following attempts. Finally once you only need one corruption you have a 1/16 chance of getting the corruption you are missing.

In total this means you need to wait for 3 successes with probabilities 3/16,2/16 and 1/16. Simply inverting this numbers gives us the expectations of the corresponding geometric distributions and gives a total expectation of 16/3+8+16=29 1/3.

This is still a pretty insane number of runs required, since you at average you still need to find the gem corruption room more than 29 times. Examining the corresponding distribution more closely also yields that a little more than 1 in 10 players will have to find the corruption room more than 65 times, which I consider quite high.

Of course this is all based on the probabilities for each individual event indeed being 1/16, of which I am not sure whether it is confirmed.

In any case it does indeed appear that this is one of the most tedious challenges of the recent leagues.

I thought this was pretty interesting so I set up a simulation to see how difficult it is to get a specific T3 room. I don't know all of the mechanics behind Incursions so these are just rough estimates.

Assumptions:
- Temples will start with five T1 rooms
- Rooms are picked at random. There are no weights.
- Room types are picked at random. Again no weights.
- No two rooms can have the same room type.

The process I used is to pick a random room. If it's blank and contains the Gemcutter's Workshop, pick that, otherwise pick any. If it's a Gemcutter's or Department of Thaumaturgy, upgrade it, otherwise pick the other room type. Basically, keep switching rooms until you get a Gemcutter's Workshop.

I am not including Temple Nexus as I have no clue if it will statistically help or not.

Conclusion:
After simulating several million temples, you have about an 11.5% chance to get Doryani's Institute. You have to run about 8.7 temples to get it.

If you are going completely hardcore temple rushing and can manage 8 temples per hour (which I think is insane) then it'll take 31 hours to finish.

I map pretty casually with a lot of breaks, so it might take me an average of around an hour to run maps and incursions and complete a temple. If all I do is maps and temples 4 hours a day, it'll take me 84 days to finish this challenge. Yikes

Bear in mind that the process I'm using is optimized only for Doryani's Institute. The chance of you getting any other T3 room will drop severely since you are always switching out rooms if you don't have Gemcutter's Workshop on your temple already. If you are trying for other T3 rooms, then you will have an even worse time trying to finish this challenge.

Other fun facts, you have 37.7% chance to get stuck on Gemcutter's Workshop, 23.6% chance to end up on Department of Thaumaturgy, and 27.1% chance to not even get the gem room type at all.