Being a mediocre player gets you nowhere in POE

Careful there, you're going to trigger the resident casual apologists who don't even play the game but have Very Strong Opinions about how the game should be balanced :)

There's definite design bloat, but I think that's simply a side-effect of how PoE was developed in bits and pieces.

The game design isn't helped by the clusterfuck patchwork plot. The world-building was always there, but I can't really come to terms with the idea that GGG had any idea where the main plot was supposed to go beyond killing Dominus (or hell, beyond Piety).

Yeah i see those things as kinda patch up.

I remeber times when game edned ta the doors to Solaris. Then there was Piety as final boss and then Dom. But after killing Dom that tried become god in this false wolrd (as he states this world is only an illusion - he gives us hints that true gods are programmers ;) mind game i like to play) what comes next? Well Malachai that wanted to reshape that world using Beast. Yeah i agree that act 4 is kinda dissapointing really - to short, to shallow from story point of wiev but lest see what Vilenta says to us. We kill Mal to either leave the Beast to die or to take control over it and reshape world on our image. But there are consequences - old Gods awakens and they are entitled to be the shaper ones. And so we take weapon and kill all that are our rival in our goal. But eve if we kill them all we still cannot take place as resahper of world. Maby Shaper is the one and Elder is just reaction from Universe to such events? Dunno.

I personally like acts 6-10 they show Wreaclast from a slightly different point of view and that is fine. I kinda dont like how some gods, that are worshipped by marauder or Haku become just something to kill but whatever.

I wait for next acts. Seriosly there were Necormancers that were defeated by odl Gods and so they should return.

Well GGG have the opportunity to expand into something great but... well if they will use it or waste it - that is the question. We will see :)

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鬼殺し wrote:

A game that encourages oneshotting 'trash' mobs (I fucking hate that term so much!) as the best way to progress rather than focussing down bosses for the loot will almost inevitably make players ask why bosses aren't dying as quickly as trash mobs if the reward for killing them is the same or less than mowing down hordes of mooks.

I also dont like term "trash mobs", but in PoE, it fits perfectly to describe the fact they are meant to be oneshotted all at once. I wish PoE was more like Dark Souls. I finished DS3 just recently, and liked it so much! It's not even that hard as they describe it - actually, it's quite easy (except for some bosses/places in Ringed City DLC). I liked it because it places your SKILL above everything else, while PoE encourages playing like a mindless BOT!

Actually red map content on hardcore is challenging and mindless playing is going to kill you really soon.

If pointing out that a 10% XP punishment is nothing and the people complaining about it have transcended mediocrity makes me an elitist, then that's a sad reflection of what modern gaming has become. That a borderline unplayable product like PUBG became so popular is a testament to the fact that players are desperate for a game that doesn't pat them on the head when they're shit at it. All the things you list as "problems" for new players are exactly the things that attracted me to PoE. I love that the learning experience is cryptic and confusing and I had to look up forum threads and 3rd party resources to get good at it. I love that the game is complicated and yet doesn't vomit tutorial messages on my screen for every little thing. Most of all, I like that it was obviously designed with the hardcore player in mind. The guy (or girl) who theorycrafts on the way to work, spends hours reading up on mechanics and interactions and is determined to overcome the difficulty.

I started playing 2 days before Abyss ended (wow you got me dude, 'grats) because I saw the Bestiary trailer and thought "now here's something I've never seen in an ARPG". There are lots of things in PoE without a precedent in gaming. I can only cheer on developers who've been in this industry for 6 years now and still haven't caved to the torrent of casuals begging them to simplify everything for them. If you can make things more clear for new players without ruining the mystic appeal of finding out stuff for yourself that's great. I'm not against casual players who study the game at their own pace. I will, however, always be against casuals who demand the game be dumbed down to their level of skill and understanding.

Also my "babycore" comment is tongue-in-cheek. I don't mind softcore players who simply don't like HC and prefer to play their own way without bitching. That said, I've never seen HC players whining about chaos damage in Incursions, difficult red mobs in Bestiary and death penalties on this forum. It's always, ironically, softcore players who have the least to lose from difficulty spikes. Those are the "babycore" players I refer to.

PS: Nice Tencent drama signature. I'm already reeling from the enormous impact that investment had on PoE. Literally can't even log into the game without being reminded that GGG are now slaves to Tencent, amirite?

As a mediocre player what I find is difficult is when I have a build that I really enjoy playing, but I top out; either because I have reach the limits of my playing skill or because I have reached the limits of my ability to build. One might think you just play for the sake of playing but there is really demotivating to repeatedly fail. At some point I give up and roll a new character. This is probably why I have certain builds that I have played multiple times.

wolf

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鬼殺し wrote:

So...how do we explain the 60k+ player concurrency for PoE? Do people enjoy bot play with a huge bias towards unrewarding loot that much?

Maybe theyre not as veteran as us and have yet to realise thats all it is. Lord knows it took me 6 years to finally admit it to myself.

It seems, there are many dumb people, that enjoy it (or get used to it). Sadly, there are no real competitors to PoE, and many choose PoE just because they dont have much choice.
Also, i suspect that a lot of "players" are actually bots... Because PoE is literally MADE to be played by bots.

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Filousov wrote:

Actually red map content on hardcore is challenging and mindless playing is going to kill you really soon.

I agree on that, to certain degree (actually, playing HC properly in PoE just means you should stay out of any dangerm because taking risk is never worth it. But not all players can accept hardcore mode, where you lose character with a single mistake, RNG coinscience, IP lag, PC hangout, electricity shutdown, etc. I like playing PC games exactly because i DONT LOSE EVERYTHING from a single mistake. It discourages risk and experimenting, and i like to take risks with significant chance to fail, it's far more interesting than 100% safe gameplay without any risk involved, that makes you fall asleep after 1-2 hours.

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ChefoSLR wrote:

If pointing out that a 10% XP punishment is nothing and the people complaining about it have transcended mediocrity makes me an elitist, then that's a sad reflection of what modern gaming has become.

There are Dark Souls series, where true "hardcore" gameplay is involved, and many players like it. No, i dont mean losing character on 1 mistake, i mean it is really skill-based, and you cant just right-click everything and win, even in starting areas, even if you're high-leveled and well-deared, enemies can sometimes kick your ass and kill you, if you try to "right-click" everyting on your wake. On other hand, even low-level character with poor gear can destroy all enemies and bosses, if he's skilled enough. That's what i call true "hardcore".

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鬼殺し wrote:

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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鬼殺し wrote:

So...how do we explain the 60k+ player concurrency for PoE? Do people enjoy bot play with a huge bias towards unrewarding loot that much?

Maybe theyre not as veteran as us and have yet to realise thats all it is. Lord knows it took me 6 years to finally admit it to myself.

It seems, there are many dumb people, that enjoy it (or get used to it). Sadly, there are no real competitors to PoE, and many choose PoE just because they dont have much choice.
Also, i suspect that a lot of "players" are actually bots... Because PoE is literally MADE to be played by bots.

Hm, I can't speak to that other than to ask...would bots bother using steam? Because as much as I loathe using steamcharts to discuss the playerbase as an entirety, I was quoting the latest 'peak time' steamcharts for PoE there.

Who knows, i dont know too much about bots....
But anyway, i want PoE to be someting more, than "right-click oneshot simulator" like "Alien Shooter" or "Contra". Hell, those games are actually more "hardcore", than PoE, because they're harder, and involve manual dodging various shit from "trash mobs"...

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ChefoSLR wrote:

That's 4 days of farming and decent gear instantly deleted by a player mistake. I won't say I had fun dying there, but I appreciate that there are still games being made that punish people for being bad at them. Punishments give you an incentive to improve; if you could throw corpses at the game until you got to Uber Elder there'd literally be no point to the game. Plus the "punishment" PoE hands you out for dying is a slap on the wrist, at least in babycore. You lose, what - 10% XP? - when you die. Get fucking real please.

Plenty of us are aware of what happens when lesser skilled players gain access to items/content then otherwise couldn't earn without outside help.

Yeah punishment is an incentive to improve. But dying to a fire trap because your connection froze isn't a skill check, just frustration.

10% xp is not a big deal... till the later levels. Of course it's not the same punishment as hardcore. But claiming its meaningless is just hardcore player elitism. The only difference is one loses less in SC. Death in HC or SC is a loss of time spent - HC players choose the yolo playstyle and anyone in HC who's died can attest that they've been killed by bugs or disconnections - things beyond their control.

For some players 4 days of farming may seem trivial - but for others that can be weeks or even months of their playtime.

Lastly, the more severe the punishment, the more it impacts the way a player plays the game. While I respect anyone who has the patience to run HC, I think it's silly to claim a sense of superiority when all players know the frustration of a player death, let alone one they weren't at fault for.

For folks trying to hit 100, a single death can set someone way back, losing hours/days/weeks of progress. Makes it so that players are more likely to avoid risky maps, just not at the same degree the HC folks do.