Guys, is trading an immersive experience with good player interaction?

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Shagsbeard wrote:
They'll remove trade all together long before they add an auction house.


I dunno, I rather doubt that. Doesn't the Chinese version of this game have an auction house?
Id imagine Tensen would be all for a standard stereotypical asian market ( like korean trade ) auction house / player shops.

If they felt they could get more players / money out of the US / EU markets by adding one ...they prob will.

I can imagine Chris getting all dramatic like Heston saying "From my cold dead hands!" though.
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JoeShmo wrote:
Other countries have vending machines, but you're told to pride yourself on the skill of speech and bartering to fill a void in your soul that is.... acquiring a can of soda.

Thanks for the chuckle.

But yes, I agree with the sentiment.
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ladish wrote:
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JoeShmo wrote:

The only reason why it hasn't changed is because Chris doesn't want it to. He wants trading to be super hard and painful to players ...it's some sort of child-like power trip / gratification he gets; like when a person watches someone suffer through something you can do so effortlessly.

such nonsense. The reason is because you are meant to be finding shit by playing the game not buying it off other people then whinging that the game is boring because you geared up in a week (a la D3 with ah + rmah). Trade being a pita is the only reason people will grind for items instead of just buying them. Trade is useful for mitigating rng but it shouldn't entirely replace playing the game.


Now who's talking nonsense. Your reason doesn't even follow logical sense. The reason we don't have an AH is because we're suppose to find our own items and not by them off other players?

What?

And you can already gear up in a week currently....via trading with players. How would that be any different with an auction house? The only thing an AH does it cuts out needing to message people for items. There is literally zero difference economically, outside of a more off-putting system causing players to not participate at all in it ( like right now ).

It's also not the "only reason" people grind for items instead of just buying them, but I don't understand your logic in using that as a praise for trading. You realize that's a negative, right?

Was there an actual argument to be made for trading in your post? It seems lost in a flurry of stating the obvious, like "Trading is good for the economy, because Rocks are Hard."

You're right at the end though, trading can be useful for mitigating RNG, but it actually does entirely replace playing the game in most regards. There's a reason why there are pretty much zero guides / conversations about farming items ..only in farming currency. Even GGG addresses things in terms of currency, not items. The treadmill of the game, and the economy, is to hunt for currency to buy items found randomly by players that you want to use.

SSF players have it the worst, because they're willingly restricting themselves in a game that's designed entirely around needing to trade to get anywhere in an even semi-reasonable manner. The fact some of them pull it of is amazing, in that regard, that they got so lucky ( or played such a generic build ) as to be able to achieve what they did.

But hey, if you're just earning experience to hit 100 first on a ladder ...you don't need a bunch of expensive uniques, right?

At the very least having an AH means that time spent outside of the game will be cut down drastically, and the anxiety around trading will lessen drastically for many players; resulting in a better economy. I can't see how there could be any real negative outcome for the game or it's economy by having an AH, outside of it just being a lot harder for price fixers and the like to hide behind API placeholders and actively trying to scam people out of expensive items because of how difficult it is to ascertain the worth of something on a place like Poe.Trade.
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JoeShmo wrote:
"
ladish wrote:
"
JoeShmo wrote:

The only reason why it hasn't changed is because Chris doesn't want it to. He wants trading to be super hard and painful to players ...it's some sort of child-like power trip / gratification he gets; like when a person watches someone suffer through something you can do so effortlessly.

such nonsense. The reason is because you are meant to be finding shit by playing the game not buying it off other people then whinging that the game is boring because you geared up in a week (a la D3 with ah + rmah). Trade being a pita is the only reason people will grind for items instead of just buying them. Trade is useful for mitigating rng but it shouldn't entirely replace playing the game.


Now who's talking nonsense. Your reason doesn't even follow logical sense. The reason we don't have an AH is because we're suppose to find our own items and not by them off other players?

What?

And you can already gear up in a week currently....via trading with players. How would that be any different with an auction house? The only thing an AH does it cuts out needing to message people for items. There is literally zero difference economically, outside of a more off-putting system causing players to not participate at all in it ( like right now ).

It's also not the "only reason" people grind for items instead of just buying them, but I don't understand your logic in using that as a praise for trading. You realize that's a negative, right?

Was there an actual argument to be made for trading in your post? It seems lost in a flurry of stating the obvious, like "Trading is good for the economy, because Rocks are Hard."

You're right at the end though, trading can be useful for mitigating RNG, but it actually does entirely replace playing the game in most regards. There's a reason why there are pretty much zero guides / conversations about farming items ..only in farming currency. Even GGG addresses things in terms of currency, not items. The treadmill of the game, and the economy, is to hunt for currency to buy items found randomly by players that you want to use.

SSF players have it the worst, because they're willingly restricting themselves in a game that's designed entirely around needing to trade to get anywhere in an even semi-reasonable manner. The fact some of them pull it of is amazing, in that regard, that they got so lucky ( or played such a generic build ) as to be able to achieve what they did.

But hey, if you're just earning experience to hit 100 first on a ladder ...you don't need a bunch of expensive uniques, right?

At the very least having an AH means that time spent outside of the game will be cut down drastically, and the anxiety around trading will lessen drastically for many players; resulting in a better economy. I can't see how there could be any real negative outcome for the game or it's economy by having an AH, outside of it just being a lot harder for price fixers and the like to hide behind API placeholders and actively trying to scam people out of expensive items because of how difficult it is to ascertain the worth of something on a place like Poe.Trade.

Awkward trade == less incentive to get all your items through trade. Easy ah one-click shop == less incentive to just find stuff by playing the game. Apart from that you seem to enjoy verbosity, but somehow gleaned from my post something about the economy? Nonsensical drivel.
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ladish wrote:

Awkward trade == less incentive to get all your items through trade. Easy ah one-click shop == less incentive to just find stuff by playing the game. Apart from that you seem to enjoy verbosity, but somehow gleaned from my post something about the economy? Nonsensical drivel.


You still haven't actually made a point or argument in favor of the current trade sysem vs an AH. You're just repeating obvious things, like something being harder means less likely to trade for them.

If I'm being verbose, then you're not speaking at all.

Stop using "nonsensical" when you don't understand the meaning of it ( akin to both your posts ).
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JoeShmo wrote:
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ladish wrote:

Awkward trade == less incentive to get all your items through trade. Easy ah one-click shop == less incentive to just find stuff by playing the game. Apart from that you seem to enjoy verbosity, but somehow gleaned from my post something about the economy? Nonsensical drivel.


You still haven't actually made a point or argument in favor of the current trade sysem vs an AH. You're just repeating obvious things, like something being harder means less likely to trade for them.

If I'm being verbose, then you're not speaking at all.

Stop using "nonsensical" when you don't understand the meaning of it ( akin to both your posts ).

you said I stated something about trade being good for the economy when I didn't mention the economy at all. How can you expect me to not say you are talking nonsense when you seem to not even be replying to my post? I restated the same thing because it was my point.

To break down the discussion thus far: you said something about Chris Wilson not wanting auction house because he's a big meanie, I said it was nonsense and the reason for no AH was because it would make trade so easy that playing the game to find items would become pointless. Then you posted several paragraphs, said I was stating the obvious and then responded to some made up things I didn't say. I responded reiterating my point, and also pointing out you either didn't read my post or made up some extra words I didn't say in your head. In your most recent post you said I haven't made a point, but then restated my point for me. You can think the point is weak or flawed as you will, but it's what I perceive Chris Wilson's standpoint to be and seems to make more sense than him just doing it to be a big meanie.

I hope we fed Stuncc enough with this stupid, pointless argument.
Trade as-is is pretty repulsive to me. I've given some stuff to a colleague who plays the game and vice versa. No currency exchanged. Broader than that, I won't touch it.

For cheap stuff, say up to 1 alch or 1 chaos, I'd like to see an automated system. For expensive items, sure, keep the interaction-required system. IRL you haggle for a car or a house, you (normally) don't go to a supermarket and haggle over a can of Coke or a loaf of bread. Yes, I know Wraeclast is a hive of scum and villainy, but there is always be something too cheap to haggle over.
The only reason i play path of exile i because the interaction with other players while trading...
"Now all that's left is for you getting on your knees."
if you know thanks me:) i'm dying to find out x'D
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JoeShmo wrote:

Most players would actually prefer an auction house though.


Link to this statistic?

There are two kinds of people hoping for an AH:

1) The kind of people that are unable to see what an automated AH would do to the game, in-game progression and economy

2) The kind of people that don't care, because they buy everything all the time, without thinking about drops - and couldn't care less about drop rates.
Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
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鬼殺し wrote:
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Mal_function wrote:
Trade as-is is pretty repulsive to me. I've given some stuff to a colleague who plays the game and vice versa. No currency exchanged. Broader than that, I won't touch it.

For cheap stuff, say up to 1 alch or 1 chaos, I'd like to see an automated system. For expensive items, sure, keep the interaction-required system. IRL you haggle for a car or a house, you (normally) don't go to a supermarket and haggle over a can of Coke or a loaf of bread. Yes, I know Wraeclast is a hive of scum and villainy, but there is always be something too cheap to haggle over.


I like this a lot! Explains why I hate buying houses and cars and do both as little as possible. Not to mention dealing with fucking tradies over home improvements (no offence to any tradies reading this but you all know it's a dodgy fuckin' business). If I have the money for what I want, I get it. I despise auctions because if I lose, it feels unfair because, damnit, I had the money and probably *just* not quite enough. Frustrating to the extreme. I WILL pay extra if it removes uncertainty and the pain of aggressive negotiation. Just who I am. Slippery salesmen with negotiable products see me coming a mile away so I try to avoid situations where I have to deal with them, ahahhaha.

This also explains why I always did buyout-only and mostly just low-end purchases in PoE. I'm a big fan of 1-5c unique bargains and seeing how far I can push them. Because while I might be financially okay IRL where it actually matters, I'm a fucking penurious bum in PoE because I find it keeps the game interesting and I won't die for reals if I'm a bum in PoE. :)




Of course, what I'd really like is a Bank of Wraeclast :) Easy currency exchange, exchange able to go up and down in response to supply and demand. The bank can take a cut off the exchange rate, which gives a currency sink. And as GGG controls the drop rates, they have the means to "adjust" the exchange rates. I'm not looking for deals as good as the masters' daily deals, but not as horrible as some of the usual vendors. And of course, you can't buy everything from vendors, and the deals are very specific.

I'm not delusional, I know this will never happen!

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