Current ARPGs to turn to?

From Software will release a new title, either late this year, or early the next. It will be a masterpiece as always.

To a degree yes.

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鬼殺し wrote:

Do we count Souls games as ARPGs now? Interesting. I figured it's implicit when someone says ARPG here they mean 'isometric view Diablo clone'.

Technically it falls into arpg genre as it fits all the criteria.

If someone would consider it, they could make a mod to fix camera in dark souls 3 as in isometric games, it wouldn't be representative, but it would work.

I'm jumping ship to Last Epoch. They even have an Auction house coming! RIP POE RIP GGG!

New D2 Ladder season starts soon!. Should reset within a month~!

The Souls Series fit the criteria of an ACTION Role Playing Game way more than PoE or Diablo does. Hell, even Skyrim does, since on Skyrim you target, dodge, block MANUALLY and it is not based on stats like on a clasic RPG. The Witcher as well (and even more than Skyrim for that matter).

To me Diablo clones are hardly ARPGs, but rather clasic RPGs, but faster and with a single hero instead of a team. We could have a long philosophical discussion on what defines an RPG or an ARPG, but practically, on video games, it ARPG is a game that combines combat gameplay of an action game, with RPG elements. To me this means that the more your character relies on his stats and gear, the more RPG the game is. The more it relies on your manual actions, the more Action it is.

It is a general trend in this forum, and on hardcore Diablo fans in general to call ARPGs mostly Diablo clone games. This is not the case on other forums or other gamers however. Not in the least. If you ask a non Diablo fan gamer, on what genre Skyrim falls into, he will most likely reply "Action RPG". Wikipedia will tell you the same thing: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is an open world action role-playing video game developed by Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks.

For the Soul Series specifically, i have said it before. To me they are on the ARPG genre for this decade, what Diablo II was for the previous. They created the new standard.

Gonna start putting in my hours into myself and advancing my career.


Long term planning baby!


- waits for new ARPG

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astraph wrote:

... To me Diablo clones are hardly ARPGs, but rather clasic RPGs, but faster and with a single hero instead of a team. We could have a long philosophical discussion on what defines an RPG or an ARPG, but practically, on video games, it ARPG is a game that combines combat gameplay of an action game, with RPG elements. To me this means that the more your character relies on his stats and gear, the more RPG the game is. The more it relies on your manual actions, the more Action it is...

In general, regarding RPG vs ARPG, I agree with you.

However, saying Skyrim is much more heavily dependent on the players actions than PoE... that's just crazy-talk. :)

You've played Skyrim, right? You've engaged enemies in that game, fought them, shot arrows at them while sneaking... and stuff, right? Skyrim's "combat" is, at the very best, clunky as all heck, unresponsive half the time, wonky at the worst moments and, basically, if you have the most awesomests stuffs, everything is dead, anyway, even if you can't hit the broad side of a barn with your sword. Skyrim is not as dependent upon player combat skills or physical actions during the game as PoE is. For that matter, it's not as dependent upon those things as the "Diablos" are. Skrim's "roleplaying" elements are, in my opinion, somewhat superior to both Diablo and PoE. There is much more player involvement with their chosen personae, quests, NPCs, etc. In that respect, it's much more heavily weighted towards an RPG than an ARPG when compared to Diablo or PoE. It still qualifies as an ARPG, though. It's just not as much "action" as these other games.

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Morkonan wrote:

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astraph wrote:

... To me Diablo clones are hardly ARPGs, but rather clasic RPGs, but faster and with a single hero instead of a team. We could have a long philosophical discussion on what defines an RPG or an ARPG, but practically, on video games, it ARPG is a game that combines combat gameplay of an action game, with RPG elements. To me this means that the more your character relies on his stats and gear, the more RPG the game is. The more it relies on your manual actions, the more Action it is...

In general, regarding RPG vs ARPG, I agree with you.

However, saying Skyrim is much more heavily dependent on the players actions than PoE... that's just crazy-talk. :)

You've played Skyrim, right? You've engaged enemies in that game, fought them, shot arrows at them while sneaking... and stuff, right? Skyrim's "combat" is, at the very best, clunky as all heck, unresponsive half the time, wonky at the worst moments and, basically, if you have the most awesomests stuffs, everything is dead, anyway, even if you can't hit the broad side of a barn with your sword. Skyrim is not as dependent upon player combat skills or physical actions during the game as PoE is. For that matter, it's not as dependent upon those things as the "Diablos" are. Skrim's "roleplaying" elements are, in my opinion, somewhat superior to both Diablo and PoE. There is much more player involvement with their chosen personae, quests, NPCs, etc. In that respect, it's much more heavily weighted towards an RPG than an ARPG when compared to Diablo or PoE. It still qualifies as an ARPG, though. It's just not as much "action" as these other games.

You are right, because the actual implementation of the combat in Skyrim is shit, so it does end up being a mere stat check. However i stand by my point, because BY DESIGN it should have been more dependent on players manual actions. You aim with the bow, there is no chance to hit or a theoritical %. Same with blocking. It is depended on you, not on a mechanic etc. Same with critical hits in way. You do them manually. In the end it does not work because the combat was always lacking in Elder Scrolls games.

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astraph wrote:

..In the end it does not work because the combat was always lacking in Elder Scrolls games.

I'd have to disagree, there - In the first ES games, the combat was revolutionary. Moving one's actual "sword" the way the mouse was moved was truly an epic thing. It was unprecedented. It was simply awesome.

And, inventing one's own spells was awesome, too. Coming up with wild combinations of different sorts of effects and status changes was also revolutionary, long before anyone else manged to figure out how to do it and how to make it actually meaningful. I remember inventing my own awesome-kill-everything-and-kill-it-twice-while-it-burns-to-death uber spell in Arena, or was it Daggerfall? Either way, it was certainly groudbreaking.

However...

Now, that sort of innovation is a bit lacking. With all the costs of visual development, the neat and nifty, but laboriously crafted, mechanics that can allow for that sort of innovation are a bit less rarely seen. Modders often step in, but they are limited by what they can touch without violating legal constraints.

Skyrim is still a great game. It's still an ARPG. It still has decent combat and all that sort of stuff. It's just not "on the cutting edge" as ES used to be. It has "competition." That was practically unthinkable, back in the day, with only titles like Ultima Underworld or similar offering any serious challenge.

I guess the point is - Things change. A dominant game can fall by the wayside pretty easily. Even genres get redefined as developers look for "their niche" that nobody else is fully exploiting. Things just... change.

As gamers, it's up to us to help... us. :) We've got to tell each other what's out there, what's good, what sucks, what's worth playing and what is really, now, on the cutting edge of truly remarkable gaming. Otherwise, it's just going to be up to the publishers hawking their wares and throwing money at flashy advertising.

PS - By the way, the versatility one used to have in creating one's own spells and attacks in Elder Scrolls can now be found in... Path of Exile! That's one of the things I really enjoy. Not every character is the same and every player has the opportunity to customize their character for their playstyle. That's a beautiful thing.