Content with high cost of entry should be fail-safe

I'm talking about stuff like Uber Atziri, the Shaper's Realm, Vinktar's Square, and the bestiary roosts.

It's safe to say that everybody only cares about what drops from the boss for these areas. The problem for a lot of people, especially for the poor players and people that have never tried it, is that the cost is too steep to attempt the fight in case you fail. And when you do fail, it's absolutely infuriating. I believe that there is no need for this possibility of failure to exist.

The change I propose is simple:

1) Only the boss gives exp and drops loot
2) If you fail to kill the boss and run out of portals, you are refunded the cost of entry

I write this because I've been staring at Saqawal's Roost for the past 10 levels wondering if I can take it with my SSF character. As I'm sitting here pondering if I'm ready to attempt it now, I really don't see this possibility of failure benefiting anyone except the .00001% of the player base that does Uber Atziri service.

If my proposed fail-safe existed, would I feel any less satisfied at the kill when I do kill the boss? No, absolutely not. The way it is now, it's basically like signing people up to HC when they didn't ask for it.

While a lot of people want to increase the "risk/reward" part in PoE, you want to remove the "risk" part completely? You do realize that if your suggestions here would (God forbid) make their waay into the game, there would, indirectly, be NO(!) cost to do this content?

Some of these encounters may give you some of the most powerful items in the game. Why remove the "risk" part from that equation? I really do not get it. Remove the risk part, because you feel entitled to do the content, risk-free? Or remove the risk part because you do not have the balls to test it out?

And before you defend yourself; the game is not, and will never be, balanced around SSF play.

If you're SSF, then the cost of entry is irrelevant. Each beast you get that lets you open a portal gives you one attempt at it. If you don't try it out, the beast is pointless, it's not like you can sell it.

Just try it, and then if you fail, you'll know better for next time. Or, keep levelling if you're unsure.

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Phrazz wrote:

the game is not, and will never be, balanced around SSF play.

Same as 'game not, and will never be, balanced around MMO play'. Why? Maybe because PoE is not a MMO?

The biggest problem of current 'risk and revard' state is the fact that most of the time you not risked your character life or XP. You afraid lose this attempt, because 'key' for that just rare.

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DoEFotGS wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

the game is not, and will never be, balanced around SSF play.

Same as 'game not, and will never be, balanced around MMO play'. Why? Maybe because PoE is not a MMO?

The biggest problem of current 'risk and revard' state is the fact that most of the time you not risked your character life or XP. You afraid lose this attempt, because 'key' for that just rare.

Did anyone mention MMO? It IS centered around trade. That has been clear since the start of this game, if that's what you're referring to.

I agree that the "risk reward" element is a bit screwed in PoE these days, because the power creep is so huge, that most things aren't a risk at all. But running Uber Atzir, Uber Izaro, Uber Elder or other high end encounters = a risk, if not a "life or death" risk, but an economical risk.

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Phrazz wrote:

It IS centered around trade.
...
But running Uber Atzir, Uber Izaro, Uber Elder or other high end encounters = a risk, if not a "life or death" risk, but an economical risk.

Yeah, this is true.

And that why I want to say: FUCK THIS SHIT!

I come to play into action RPG, not into economical simulator.

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Phrazz wrote:

While a lot of people want to increase the "risk/reward" part in PoE, you want to remove the "risk" part completely? You do realize that if your suggestions here would (God forbid) make their waay into the game, there would, indirectly, be NO(!) cost to do this content?

Some of these encounters may give you some of the most powerful items in the game. Why remove the "risk" part from that equation? I really do not get it. Remove the risk part, because you feel entitled to do the content, risk-free? Or remove the risk part because you do not have the balls to test it out?

And before you defend yourself; the game is not, and will never be, balanced around SSF play.

I'd like to know what group of people wants to increase the risk/reward of PoE. That's definitely a first for me, and even then this is not the type of risk/reward to ask for. The only time I can defend having a risk/reward system in PoE is if the reward part is guaranteed, such as the Labyrinth. I personally hate the Labyrinth, but having to only clear it once and be done with it gives me the great feeling that risk/reward has to offer when I finally do clear it.

Action RPGs demands persistence out of the player more than any other genre, and that's a big part of what draws people in. The risk/reward that you claim other people are wanting increased are probably rooted in this. I would be totally fine if Uber Atziri was a very long and difficult encounter, and the risk associated with it is time lost if you fail. I can try again next time when I feel I'm strong enough, or maybe I'll jump right in again thinking I might be able to play it better this time. Either way, the reward is guaranteed as long as I try hard enough.

Now let's look at Uber Atziri as it is currently. This is absolutely the wrong type of risk/reward for this game for reasons I've already mentioned. At the very least, I know for a fact that I personally don't get a higher feeling of satisfaction when I clear it due to the risk involved. If I was looking for that feeling, I'd be playing HC. There's only the negative emotion when I fail.

As a person who just failed to do Chayula breachstone some days ago (3ex market price) you could expect me support your position, but not. Endgame content meant to be challenging, exactly as being said 'no risk - no reward'. I would even say 'no pain - no gain'.

And what about UberAtziri, it's never been so cheap, year ago I payed 2ex for each set, and now it's like 0.8ex on Bestiary. Shaper set is 60c, it's basically for free. Vinktar you've mentioned is 12c, dirty cheap. From Bestiary only Farric Tiger Alpha is kind of expensive for 2ex, but you need only one for challenge, so whatever.

And loot can be good and even bring you some profit.

So, in conclusion.

I suck

I want something from "hard" content

I keep dying in that hard content because i suck

Instead of sucking less i want GGG to baby me and remove all challenge from the game.



D3 is that way --------------->

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fwd wrote:

As a person who just failed to do Chayula breachstone some days ago (3ex market price) you could expect me support your position, but not. Endgame content meant to be challenging, exactly as being said 'no risk - no reward'. I would even say 'no pain - no gain'.

And what about UberAtziri, it's never been so cheap, year ago I payed 2ex for each set, and now it's like 0.8ex on Bestiary. Shaper set is 60c, it's basically for free. Vinktar you've mentioned is 12c, dirty cheap. From Bestiary only Farric Tiger Alpha is kind of expensive for 2ex, but you need only one for challenge, so whatever.

And loot can be good and even bring you some profit.

When you can break down the cost of each encounter and your supporting argument is "it's cheap so who cares", that is in itself already a problem. Different players have different valuations.

I would absolutely not expect you to support my position since you immediately go to break down the costs of each encounter, and then you go on to say 60c is 'basically free'. That is not the thought process of someone who thinks 'no pain no gain'. That's the thought process of someone who calculates the risk vs reward and determines whether it's worth it or not. That is not a true 'risk - reward'. By your valuation of what 60c is, it's basically 'insignificant risk - is the reward worth it?'.

As an example of something you might be looking for, if all mortal fragments and all drops from Uber Atziri were non-tradeable, then your argument would have some merit. In this case, there is absolutely a risk involved equally for everyone trying to get the items in the form of time, plus a reward to match it(or not, depending on the build). I don't think this would be a good idea, but whatever. I would even support this over the way Uber Atziri is currently.

...Actually, that may be a great idea. Super-Endgame content/loot that's only attainable by grinding for it? That sounds fantastic.