Constructive tradeboard discussion

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V3mpa1N wrote:

The trade board is working as intended.

True. The mechanisms in place are largely intentional. Typically, perceived missteps are intentional rather than unintentional.

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V3mpa1N wrote:

Please read the long post about it in dev.

An excellent suggestion - I think that everyone suggesting trade changes should read the Trade Manifesto every so often - and I have. In my opinion the Trade Manifesto is largely logical and coherent although I remain uncomfortable with some of the derivative conclusions drawn. It is also my opinion that the implementation of the Trade Manifesto on Xbox has flaws. Reading the Trade Manifesto did leave me convinced that GGG is understandably conflicted regarding trade - being able to sell things is all round good for the game experience while being able to buy things while satisfying in the instant, is ultimately bad for the game experience. GGG seeks balance and it is in that exercise of balance seeking where differences of opinion may arise.

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V3mpa1N wrote:

The second we get instant buyouts is the same second when itemflipping is the best way to make money.
Same thing applies to forced pricing.

Perhaps - but I would argue that this is more a result of GGG's reluctance to interfere with the "free" part of "free market" by putting in place deterrents to dedicated item flipping.

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V3mpa1N wrote:

On pc finding items is easy but then you need to meet the guy ingame.
On xbox buying is easy but the search for the right item takes effort.

GGG and I have different opinions of what "it's very easy to complete trades" entails. I think that they have a better handle on the "more difficult to find the exact item you're looking for" part. I could agree with "it's very easy to initiate trades".

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V3mpa1N wrote:

Allowing players to send too many offers would lead to players sending loads of lowball offers to players hoping someone does not know the right price.

I agree. But I do think that players should be able to "bookmark" a greater number of items (have a wish list of potential trade items without using up any of the 10 trade offers)

It would be nice if we can get a response from GGG.

Edit: I feel rude now.

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Jeff_GGG wrote:

As for the discussion of indicating if a player is AFK - this is something that has been brought up, though there's the issue of users easily being able to circumvent being flagged as AFK by a variety of different means.

As much as I would love an AFK option for the trade board, from a logical standing, I don't see how it would be work the effort doing because as you mentioned, being able to circumvent the AFK flag pretty easy.

You don't want to punish legit players for a small minority. Myself and others have had this discussion plenty of times on the Discord. AFK works for PC, it just doesn't on Xbox. The most logical way would be to add a 30 minute timer of not moving means you're AFK, but that's easy to get around with a rubber band. There's tons of things you could do, kick users to login (Which is bad, IMO), hide AFK items (Bad as well), show who's AFK (Not bad, just easy to get around), or nothing.

Almost every system that GGG puts into place can be circumvented. Because there's no perfect solution. Does not moving make someone AFK? Does not pressing a button make them AFK? What constitutes AFK? You could say that if they're not changing zones, they're AFK, but what about people who are there, but just talking in a party, or whatever. That hurts legit players. That's the issue with AFK, and a true solution, it's very hard to fix.

As far as what else Noodle says, I agree with.

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Jeff_GGG wrote:

Thanks for all of the detailed feedback. This post as well as others that have similar points have been passed onto the team. That being said, I don't expect this to happen as the trade board is intentionally designed to not have buyouts.

As for the discussion of indicating if a player is AFK - this is something that has been brought up, though there's the issue of users easily being able to circumvent being flagged as AFK by a variety of different means.

Hi Jeff, well I understand the position not to want buyouts, even if its against the manifesto, that trades should be easy on xbox.

But we still have to face the price fixing and the afk solution. What about some kind of penalty? Like ok i offer an item for 10 chaos, i am not afk, open my tradeboard and see the offer of 10c and I reject or just don't answer. After a while this should be penalized by taking my items off the tradeboard for some time. You could ofc put some warning message ingame so you wouldn't hurt people, who were just not paying attention.

This would not change the way the tradeboard works, just have some effect on the ppl with mal intent.

I think that there is value in a more nuanced "on-line" status indicator. I'd like something that indicates a player has been logged on recently (within 24 hours is likely the maximum period I would suggest, but definitely hours as opposed to minutes). I'm not interested in kicking people off line - just in providing info to the buyer regarding whether or not the seller still seems interested in trading, and allowing the seller to indicate said interest. If people want to call it AFK, fine - unless it means attaching a whole lot of unasked for (by me) policing - than call it something else. This would be in addition to the current "on-line" search criteria, not a replacement.

By far the worst thing about tradeboard something thaw was laughably bad last league is the trade off between you actually playing the game vs scrolling through 20 pages of rings or abyss jewels. Abyss jewels were new and exciting way to power up your character and even make some builds quite a bit more viable.. except if you play on xbox where trying to find the right jewel was pretty impossible. This is going to repeat itself as clearly ggg does not design content with any consideration to xbox players ahem bestiary.

This issue was created with first blood bundle that gave new players public stash. These new players have no idea what a good item is, they instinctively loot everything and their stash is filled to brim before they even get to maps. Their public stash is filled to brim with trash. Trash you and I have to sort through in search of a right item.

I'm posting this in reply to a few people about instant buy out. And why it would fix flipping.

Let's say....
20 fusing are worth 10c.
I post a few stacks at 9c.
Then more at 8c.
Then mix it up stacks 12-18 fusing but still at about 7c for 20 in the end.
Then a handful more a 6c.

This will make it look like more than one seller. And like no one is really biying.

I ignore all offers I get and run 0 risk. And just wait for people to undercut me. And buy them all up.

I cant do this if the "real" price is based on instant buy out.

Yes that is happening right now.

But imagine this..

Something is worth 2ex
That same guy lists an item like that for 30c hoping to score.

Someone gets that item and sees the 30c one and lists it for 25c.

The fixer offers 25c.
I see the item and offer ~1ex since i want it and know that it is worth more.

Price fixer cant instabuyout and so the guy selling it will likely sell it to me.
Flipping is less effective.

I have overpaid like this a few times already.


With instant buyouts/forced pricing we run in the same problem as the biggest competitor of poe did.. lurking the market is more profitable than actually playing.

Best way to get this sorted that comes into mind would be:

If you price your item and get offered exactly what you asked or more but fail to accept or decline in x amount of online time/ logins you get a notification saying "suspended from tradeboard, open offers waiting for action" this would remove your items from tradeboard and prevent you from buying until you take action. then if you fail to reply to the offers in X amount of time you get a 24h ban to the tradeboard.
That ban would increase to a week if you repeat.

System would let you decline an offer that matches your price limited times before ban occurs.

Offer would have to be in the exact same currency as the asking price and be equal or higher.

I don't think that your example necessarily "proves" much.

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V3mpa1N wrote:

Yes that is happening right now.

But imagine this..

Something is worth 2ex
That same guy lists an item like that for 30c hoping to score.

Yes, and if Buyout is in effect, you buy it for 30c, and the story ends.

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V3mpa1N wrote:

Someone gets that item and sees the 30c one and lists it for 25c.

The fixer offers 25c.
I see the item and offer ~1ex since i want it and know that it is worth more.

Price fixer cant instabuyout and so the guy selling it will likely sell it to me.
Flipping is less effective.

I have overpaid like this a few times already.

So you have established that the lack of a buyout allows you to profit from the deception of the fixer. Not everyone may see this as a truly "fair" result - possibly better, but the seller has still been manipulated, just by proxy.

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V3mpa1N wrote:

With instant buyouts/forced pricing we run in the same problem as the biggest competitor of poe did.. lurking the market is more profitable than actually playing.

Best way to get this sorted that comes into mind would be:

If you price your item and get offered exactly what you asked or more but fail to accept or decline in x amount of online time/ logins you get a notification saying "suspended from tradeboard, open offers waiting for action" this would remove your items from tradeboard and prevent you from buying until you take action. then if you fail to reply to the offers in X amount of time you get a 24h ban to the tradeboard.
That ban would increase to a week if you repeat.

System would let you decline an offer that matches your price limited times before ban occurs.

Offer would have to be in the exact same currency as the asking price and be equal or higher.

Yes to something like this, although in this particular example, the seller need only log on to a second account, make an offer, and then accept the self-offer back on the first account. The seller could in fact, make a second account offer immediately after listing the item and just have the offer waiting for acceptance when the notices reach a critical point. One possible fix for this might be to remove an item from the Trade Board once a price matching offer has been made but that would eliminate the over bid strategy that you mentioned.