I know ill be hated for saying this... almost no one is posting or talking about how the game's base design has changed..from "No class specific" into a pigeon holed system for classes via ascendancies..Yes I get there's "scion's" available which are kinda like the band-aid middle ground for the system. But I really hate how in most cases when I do re roll it's literally one choice MAYBE two (scion/totems/etc).
No one is sitting here fighting for the fact most of us (who at-least started playing really early on in the games history) were drawn in on the fact we could pick any character and make it work at least in some fashion (builds either took off early game or later in the game at this point in time)but they could all still function because there was no "gates to enter" as there is now.
Idk if It's just me just not liking where the game is going because of this or just my old age is starting to get to me.. I just wish there wasn't ascendancies or there was something that could change up the game and bring back the old feeling of pick any "character" and be able to make reasonable builds not look up which ascendancy to pick before you even make a character.. (which brings up the character select screen).. if you're gonna keep this system in place at least change the select screen to show the ascendancy options when you click on them some how.. so people see this information front and center which is important.. Making new people level through on the false promise of "any character can be anything" is a bit harsh i feel.. but again I may just be stupid and over thinking things.
Good example of someone I agree with, though I hate the idea of bringing more specialization into path of exile.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCHGcb0G7cI
"My horrific idea"
There need's to be like "warp keystone's where it warps you from one spot to another so better build diversity can exist... make it something with "the shaper" or "elder" idk I may just be a crazy old weirdo with no good idea's ever :( . Last edited by Xinglifehard on Mar 23, 2018, 3:15:35 PM Last bumped on Mar 24, 2018, 1:33:43 AM
This thread has been automatically archived. Replies are disabled.
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Posted byXinglifehardon Mar 23, 2018, 3:03:33 PM
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I know ill be hated for saying this... almost no one is posting or talking about how the game's base design has changed..from "No class specific" into a pigeon holed system for classes via ascendancies..Yes I get there's "scion's" available which are kinda like the band-aid middle ground for the system. But I really hate how in most cases when I do re roll it's literally one choice MAYBE two (scion/totems/etc).
I don't hate you, but I also don't agree with you. There is definitely a perception that there are strict class/skill relationships - and to some degree there are - but I don't think they are as strong as you are making out here.
The shape of the passive tree, and the location of various nodes, has always encouraged a certain association between the classes, the key stats, and the types of skill gems they work with. Starting in the "int" section of the tree is the easiest way to do spell builds, and always has been, but ... the ascendencies don't fundamentally change that.
I mean, it is true that Jugg and Champ are the popular choices for, say, an RF build right now - but Pathfinder RF works well, and I was sorely tempted to reroll over to one; witch RF also works. Just one example, sure, but ...
That said ... what are the problems you are having getting builds to work that don't use the "popular" choice for a skill? Can you be more specific about the issues you are running into?
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Posted bySlippyCheezeon Mar 23, 2018, 3:08:34 PM
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Game was better before asendency classes.
There has been great stuff put in since, but thats when the game started getting more annoying than fun for me.
Phasing mobs, immune stages, beasts (lol), etc. The lab started it all...
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Posted byChadwixxon Mar 23, 2018, 4:49:42 PM
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Game was better before asendency classes.
There has been great stuff put in since, but thats when the game started getting more annoying than fun for me.
Phasing mobs, immune stages, beasts (lol), etc. The lab started it all...
Game is far more fun for me after ascendancies, especially after the rework to give them more of a niche playstyle. I feel each class has 1 specialty class then one suited more for spells/elements and another suited more for attacking.
the lab is annoying though, which is why i only run one new character if any in a league.
before ascendancies i felt more pigeonhold to a class to run a certain build.
most people would just do scion then too due to starting location.
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Posted bynadakuuon Mar 23, 2018, 5:09:02 PM
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I know ill be hated for saying this... almost no one is posting or talking about how the game's base design has changed..from "No class specific" into a pigeon holed system for classes via ascendancies..Yes I get there's "scion's" available which are kinda like the band-aid middle ground for the system. But I really hate how in most cases when I do re roll it's literally one choice MAYBE two (scion/totems/etc).
No one is sitting here fighting for the fact most of us (who at-least started playing really early on in the games history) were drawn in on the fact we could pick any character and make it work at least in some fashion (builds either took off early game or later in the game at this point in time)but they could all still function because there was no "gates to enter" as there is now.
Idk if It's just me just not liking where the game is going because of this or just my old age is starting to get to me.. I just wish there wasn't ascendancies or there was something that could change up the game and bring back the old feeling of pick any "character" and be able to make reasonable builds not look up which ascendancy to pick before you even make a character.. (which brings up the character select screen).. if you're gonna keep this system in place at least change the select screen to show the ascendancy options when you click on them some how.. so people see this information front and center which is important.. Making new people level through on the false promise of "any character can be anything" is a bit harsh i feel.. but again I may just be stupid and over thinking things.
Good example of someone I agree with, though I hate the idea of bringing more specialization into path of exile.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCHGcb0G7cI
"My horrific idea"
There need's to be like "warp keystone's where it warps you from one spot to another so better build diversity can exist... make it something with "the shaper" or "elder" idk I may just be a crazy old weirdo with no good idea's ever :( .
i totally agree, i used to love creating a build but now im spending most my time trying to make everything make sense,
what ascendancy, whats best skill for ascendancy, whats this item whats that item do for me, what nodes on my tree, what gear, like poe wasnt complex enough before the ascendancys. 2 hours later.....
oh seems like assassin is better for this time to delete everything and spend another 2 hours till i realise another char is better... ect... lol
they should sack the ascendancys off and put em as keystones around the tree or some shit and bring back pick any character and make it work.
simplicity is the best design.
to new players poe (before ascendancys) was confusing enough to be offputting to anyone playing but you could just roll with it and make stuff work
now it just seems overcomplicated and too overwhelming
Last edited by Cchris07 on Mar 23, 2018, 5:20:34 PM
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Posted byCchris07on Mar 23, 2018, 5:17:17 PM
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I know ill be hated for saying this... almost no one is posting or talking about how the game's base design has changed..from "No class specific" into a pigeon holed system for classes via ascendancies..Yes I get there's "scion's" available which are kinda like the band-aid middle ground for the system. But I really hate how in most cases when I do re roll it's literally one choice MAYBE two (scion/totems/etc).
No one is sitting here fighting for the fact most of us (who at-least started playing really early on in the games history) were drawn in on the fact we could pick any character and make it work at least in some fashion (builds either took off early game or later in the game at this point in time)but they could all still function because there was no "gates to enter" as there is now.
Idk if It's just me just not liking where the game is going because of this or just my old age is starting to get to me.. I just wish there wasn't ascendancies or there was something that could change up the game and bring back the old feeling of pick any "character" and be able to make reasonable builds not look up which ascendancy to pick before you even make a character.. (which brings up the character select screen).. if you're gonna keep this system in place at least change the select screen to show the ascendancy options when you click on them some how.. so people see this information front and center which is important.. Making new people level through on the false promise of "any character can be anything" is a bit harsh i feel.. but again I may just be stupid and over thinking things.
Good example of someone I agree with, though I hate the idea of bringing more specialization into path of exile.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCHGcb0G7cI
"My horrific idea"
There need's to be like "warp keystone's where it warps you from one spot to another so better build diversity can exist... make it something with "the shaper" or "elder" idk I may just be a crazy old weirdo with no good idea's ever :( .
i totally agree, i used to love creating a build but now im spending most my time trying to make everything make sense,
what ascendancy, whats best skill for ascendancy, whats this item whats that item do for me, what nodes on my tree, what gear, like poe wasnt complex enough before the ascendancys. 2 hours later.....
oh seems like assassin is better for this time to delete everything and spend another 2 hours till i realise another char is better... ect... lol
they should sack the ascendancys off and put em as keystones around the tree or some shit and bring back pick any character and make it work.
simplicity is the best design.
to new players poe (before ascendancys) was confusing enough to be offputting to anyone playing but you could just roll with it and make stuff work
now it just seems overcomplicated and too overwhelming
i agree on the "some ascendencys are better for some builds" part and that its different from what poe was at the start.
while there a stronger classes for some builds it never means you can make other classes work for the same skill. sur ethey might only reach 90% of the best build but with the power creep we got since ascendencys those 90% are more than enough to easily kill the stronges bosses,if you build is designed to kill bosses in the first place.
imo asendencys are helping new players because you get a clear idea of what build you could use for class x. even when there is still a better choice for the build,they seem to work alot better than the first builds of ppl that started pre ascendencys.
btw i dont really care which version of poe (pre ascendecys or after) i play,i like/liked them both.
the best thing about ascendencys was the big change they brought to the game. i really love bigger changes that mess up builds,it keeps the game fresh and more enjoyable.
other changes instead of asendecys would have had the same impact for me though.
in the end it doesnt matter to me,if classes can use the same skill with very different results. if i enjoy the game i will obviously keep playing and supporting the game.
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Posted byciel289on Mar 23, 2018, 6:08:24 PM
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I know ill be hated for saying this... almost no one is posting or talking about how the game's base design has changed..from "No class specific" into a pigeon holed system for classes via ascendancies..Yes I get there's "scion's" available which are kinda like the band-aid middle ground for the system. But I really hate how in most cases when I do re roll it's literally one choice MAYBE two (scion/totems/etc).
No one is sitting here fighting for the fact most of us (who at-least started playing really early on in the games history) were drawn in on the fact we could pick any character and make it work at least in some fashion (builds either took off early game or later in the game at this point in time)but they could all still function because there was no "gates to enter" as there is now.
Idk if It's just me just not liking where the game is going because of this or just my old age is starting to get to me.. I just wish there wasn't ascendancies or there was something that could change up the game and bring back the old feeling of pick any "character" and be able to make reasonable builds not look up which ascendancy to pick before you even make a character.. (which brings up the character select screen).. if you're gonna keep this system in place at least change the select screen to show the ascendancy options when you click on them some how.. so people see this information front and center which is important.. Making new people level through on the false promise of "any character can be anything" is a bit harsh i feel.. but again I may just be stupid and over thinking things.
Good example of someone I agree with, though I hate the idea of bringing more specialization into path of exile.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCHGcb0G7cI
"My horrific idea"
There need's to be like "warp keystone's where it warps you from one spot to another so better build diversity can exist... make it something with "the shaper" or "elder" idk I may just be a crazy old weirdo with no good idea's ever :( .
i totally agree, i used to love creating a build but now im spending most my time trying to make everything make sense,
what ascendancy, whats best skill for ascendancy, whats this item whats that item do for me, what nodes on my tree, what gear, like poe wasnt complex enough before the ascendancys. 2 hours later.....
oh seems like assassin is better for this time to delete everything and spend another 2 hours till i realise another char is better... ect... lol
they should sack the ascendancys off and put em as keystones around the tree or some shit and bring back pick any character and make it work.
simplicity is the best design.
to new players poe (before ascendancys) was confusing enough to be offputting to anyone playing but you could just roll with it and make stuff work
now it just seems overcomplicated and too overwhelming
i agree on the "some ascendencys are better for some builds" part and that its different from what poe was at the start.
while there a stronger classes for some builds it never means you can make other classes work for the same skill. sur ethey might only reach 90% of the best build but with the power creep we got since ascendencys those 90% are more than enough to easily kill the stronges bosses,if you build is designed to kill bosses in the first place.
imo asendencys are helping new players because you get a clear idea of what build you could use for class x. even when there is still a better choice for the build,they seem to work alot better than the first builds of ppl that started pre ascendencys.
btw i dont really care which version of poe (pre ascendecys or after) i play,i like/liked them both.
the best thing about ascendencys was the big change they brought to the game. i really love bigger changes that mess up builds,it keeps the game fresh and more enjoyable.
other changes instead of asendecys would have had the same impact for me though.
in the end it doesnt matter to me,if classes can use the same skill with very different results. if i enjoy the game i will obviously keep playing and supporting the game.
in the end it doesn't matter to (me),classes "can" use the same skill with very different results however in most cases you're losing massive bonuses if you don't choose the exact "character" to fit. This game wasn't made for it. It was made as any character can be anything. Not any character can be anything by basically sacrificing 20-60% bonus damage
by not picking the exact character the ascendancy require. So yes any character can do anything... but you basically are screwed if you do by feeling worse damage/etc wise on your build because say I didn't pick a witch for necromancer, or a totem build (which requires marauder/templar.
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Posted byXinglifehardon Mar 23, 2018, 8:37:35 PM
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You could never really be free even before acendacies due to locations of stuff on tree - like all life south all ES north, all spell crit north, etc. and it's not like you have to take one anyway. Play without like you used to. I guantee you can beat all content without one.
Git R Dun! Last edited by Aim_Deep on Mar 23, 2018, 8:56:05 PM
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Posted byAim_Deepon Mar 23, 2018, 8:54:07 PM
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I see where the OP's coming from, but ascendancies are not the factor that limits builds so much these days. It has much more to do with a small group of meta builds that seem more and more mandatory with each league. The need to find a "best" skill that fits each ascendancy, rather than figuring out creative ways to make them work, illustrates the problem: there's very little skill balance at this stage in PoE's life.
In theory, many ascendancies only limit the player to very broad playstyles. Elementalist can use any spell or attack that does elemental damage, just as Assassin can use any attack that crits. Juggernaut and Champion, being defensive classes, can use any melee attack, period. Most characters have offensive ascendancies that don't impact their defensive choice (other than tree efficiency), and defensive ascendancies that don't impact their offensive choice (other than tree efficiency). And tree efficiency has always been a factor in designing builds.
Some ascendancies are more limiting, to be sure, like Heirophant being totem-focused, Necromancer being summoning-focused, Saboteur being trap/mine-focused, and Chieftain being fire-focused. But players will always have two other ascendancy choices for their character that don't pigeonhole them into specific skill types or defense combinations. In theory.
In practice, as we know, certain ascendancies are currently associated with very specific builds. But this has much more to do with lack of balance in available skills, gear, and survival mechanics than the ascendancy system itself.
We're all in this leaky boat together, people.
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Posted bydemon9675on Mar 23, 2018, 9:43:57 PM
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I'm just glad there's open discussion here and not someone just going "stfu and go back to your gae theorycrafting" lmao
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Posted byXinglifehardon Mar 23, 2018, 10:25:56 PM
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