Melee Phys Tree Vs Elemental Tree Scaling with no offensive auras or flask

Ive been Trying to understand phys vs elemental damage vs weapon choice in scaling to see which would give me most damage at level 90, 6K life and an AA+ Dual Curse setup with 1 curse being the only offensive support.

Changing The weapon to
1. phys claw vs elemental claw
2. ele vs phys sword
3. ele vs phys dagger

And making changes to damage scaling on tree
Question 1. Is phys scaling only good with multiple offensive aura's?

Question 2.If given the same 1 offensive curse setup is elemental weapon + scaling on tree that gives the most damage output

The skill in question is lightning strike.
Here is what i am basing off - a Path of building link
https://pastebin.com/8TM5rtEp

Ultimately my goal is to understand , which would give the most damage output if you are running primarily defensive aura/curse setups.

Damage optimization for map clearing/ clear speed.

And if this logic is based on how the actual skill scales damage like say lightning strike vs sunder

Simply because playing with AA+ Blasphemy [Temp Chains + Enfeeble] is safe and fun

Offensive curses are useless when they count (vs bosses). For your build its only 7.3% dps gain vs guardian/shaper targets and only a 14% dps gain vs standard bosses.

An ungodly high pds weapon converted to elemental will beat out a pure elemental weapon and elemenetal flat stacking by a long shot but will face the issue of tremendous cost. For LS, you should use a high pds weapon and find a way to convert the remaining 50% of physical damage into elemental.

Claws will generally slightly overpower swords and daggers because of a slight overall net difference in passive node power.

You will have no issues clearing end game content using any variation of scaling or weapon selection assuming you know what you're doing. Killing guardians and higher however will drastically limit the options you can use.

Dream fragments and windscream are very sub optimal. I understand if you have budget limitations but if you want to this build to guardians and beyond there are far better ways to itemize your character.

Ah , guardians , shaper, uber... not really what i am building for. in all honesty I am building for what i hope/ wish to be a safe char to get to 100. Ive played this game for years and never had anything past 94.

Neither particularly matters if you just want to hit 100, you need a character that can reliably and quickly kill whichever is your T10/12 map boss of choice and all the trash.

You have two routes for damage (or maybe three when it comes down to it)

Fast claw with high phys > scale claw nodes > Pewpewpew

Fast claw with high ele rolls > scale crit/attack speed > pewpewpew

and as Nephalim says if you get a really GGG claw you scale it with phys then fully convert to elemental damage with an item (or the nodes in ranger for 50% lightning 40% cold 10% phys if your in the area and don't want to lose an item) this is because hatred/added fire/buffs and gems of that ilk give a considerably higher bonus than wrath/anger on well rolled weapons.

Lastly as a personal note if you have access to abyss jewels the 2nd option is the best by far, not only does it drastically cut down on your budget requirements as you just need a fast high crit claw (though obviously a high edps claw is preferred) its damage potential far outstrips the others once you get going.

Edit: also if your going for 100, temp+enfeeble

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Draegnarrr wrote:

Lastly as a personal note if you have access to abyss jewels the 2nd option is the best by far, not only does it drastically cut down on your budget requirements as you just need a fast high crit claw (though obviously a high edps claw is preferred) its damage potential far outstrips the others once you get going.

Once the next league patch drops, both the league and standard will have access to Abyss jewels - drop rates are reduced, but they will be part of the standard game.

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Nephalim wrote:

Offensive curses are useless when they count (vs bosses). For your build its only 7.3% dps gain vs guardian/shaper targets and only a 14% dps gain vs standard bosses.
I am well aware of that , This is not for shaper or bosses

An ungodly high pds weapon converted to elemental will beat out a pure elemental weapon and elemenetal flat stacking by a long shot but will face the issue of tremendous cost. For LS, you should use a high pds weapon and find a way to convert the remaining 50% of physical damage into elemental.
This ungodly high pdps weapon you speak off will it still work without any phys to elemental conversion auras? - What is this cost you speak of - Finding a way to convert is exactly what i am trying to figure out without changes to aura or gear setup - If it actually results in more damage than elemental

Claws will generally slightly overpower swords and daggers because of a slight overall net difference in passive node power.

You will have no issues clearing end game content using any variation of scaling or weapon selection assuming you know what you're doing. Killing guardians and higher however will drastically limit the options you can use.
Again this is a question of Map clearing damage optimization

Dream fragments and windscream are very sub optimal. I understand if you have budget limitations but if you want to this build to guardians and beyond there are far better ways to itemize your character.
Not for shaper or guardians

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Zinja wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

An ungodly high pds weapon converted to elemental will beat out a pure elemental weapon and elemenetal flat stacking by a long shot but will face the issue of tremendous cost. For LS, you should use a high pds weapon and find a way to convert the remaining 50% of physical damage into elemental.
This ungodly high pdps weapon you speak off will it still work without any phys to elemental conversion auras? - What is this cost you speak of - Finding a way to convert is exactly what i am trying to figure out without changes to aura or gear setup - If it actually results in more damage than elemental

The cost is that high pds weapons, especially ones with good crit like daggers and claws tend to be very expensive. On the same note, building around crit and herald of ice is going to help clear speed immensely.

Spirit of winder, hrimburn, vessel of vinktar conversion, and physical to lightning gem are some examples. I would wrath or hatred depending on how much generic or physical damage you can scale. Not really sure what you mean by elemental "conversion" aura.

Based on what PoB indicates, you should already be able to 1 shot packs Even in T16 maps. The celing for effective clear speed is not that high.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

Neither particularly matters if you just want to hit 100, you need a character that can reliably and quickly kill whichever is your T10/12 map boss of choice and all the trash.
This is easier said than done , if it was easy we would have a lot more 100's post 3.1 and this abyss league.
I am not an expert player with mathil level reflxes , so for me going a safer route to optimize grinding maps for clear speed seems like a best way to hit 100

You have two routes for damage (or maybe three when it comes down to it)

Fast claw with high phys > scale claw nodes > Pewpewpew

Fast claw with high ele rolls > scale crit/attack speed > pewpewpew
OF that much even i am aware off , the above.

and as Nephalim says if you get a really GGG claw you scale it with phys then fully convert to elemental damage with an item (or the nodes in ranger for 50% lightning 40% cold 10% phys if your in the area and don't want to lose an item) this is because hatred/added fire/buffs and gems of that ilk give a considerably higher bonus than wrath/anger on well rolled weapons.
That ' in simple terms is what i am trying to figure out in the case of no damage or offensive auras/ curses - meaning no hatred or heralds at what breakpoint in phys dps does scaling phys outweigh scaling ele weapon . Is such a scaling even possible without offensive auras that a gg phys weapon overtakes an ele weapon.

Lastly as a personal note if you have access to abyss jewels the 2nd option is the best by far, not only does it drastically cut down on your budget requirements as you just need a fast high crit claw (though obviously a high edps claw is preferred) its damage potential far outstrips the others once you get going.

That potential is what i am trying to understand, ok i am searching for claws, what dps of claw is a GG claw that outweighs say mid range cheap claw of 350 dps.
All of this going by what Nephalim said about claws being scaled better due to passives more than swords or daggers

It is imposible to answer at what threshold precisely pds a phys claw will outperform an ele claw. They use entirely different passive trees and jewels. There are too many variables.

But this is why PoB exists. However, I think even a modest 320 pds claw will outperform what you have currently especially since you are already using taste of haste which will scale on physical weapons. One other thing I'd like to mention is that shaper stat sticks don't work well with LS because LS will still work with sceptors and most(all?) weapon types and its precisely these stat sticks that let pds weapons scale so much better than edps weapons.

Additionally, claw crit phys->ele builds will generally be better than overload non crit ele claw builds. Claws have some of the best passive nodes in the tree.

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Nephalim wrote:

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Zinja wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

An ungodly high pds weapon converted to elemental will beat out a pure elemental weapon and elemenetal flat stacking by a long shot but will face the issue of tremendous cost. For LS, you should use a high pds weapon and find a way to convert the remaining 50% of physical damage into elemental.
This ungodly high pdps weapon you speak off will it still work without any phys to elemental conversion auras? - What is this cost you speak of - Finding a way to convert is exactly what i am trying to figure out without changes to aura or gear setup - If it actually results in more damage than elemental

"

Nephalim wrote:

The cost is that high pds weapons, especially ones with good crit like daggers and claws tend to be very expensive. On the same note, building around crit and herald of ice is going to help clear speed immensely.

I am aware of the cost being high , i was hoping if i found one or crafted one ( mirroed magic item from bestiary crafting) , or just lucky to find one on sale for cheap ( not really see it happening )

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Nephalim wrote:

Spirit of winder, hrimburn, vessel of vinktar conversion, and physical to lightning gem are some examples. I would wrath or hatred depending on how much generic or physical damage you can scale. Not really sure what you mean by elemental "conversion" aura.

spirit of winter , hirburn, phys to light are things i haven't considered. Looks like i have to crunch lot of numbers in trying to find a breakpoint of pdps where it becomes GGG over a mid budget ele dps weapon.

I meant running any wrath/ hatred or any auras basically. The setup i had in mind is AA+Enfeeble+Blasphemy and nothing else.

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Nephalim wrote:

Based on what PoB indicates, you should already be able to 1 shot packs Even in T16 maps. The celing for effective clear speed is not that high.

This i was totally not aware off , 1 shot packs in T16 maps i thought you need lot more damage.