What's GGG going to do about scamming this league?

Just curious if I should buy a supporter pack or wait to see if you do something next league.

Care to give just a little more detail than that?

I believe Maki is suggesting that he is considering buying a pack, but is deterred by the pervasive scamming that occurred in Abyss.

I'm not sure that is a helpful tactic (personally I am of the opinion that you should buy supporter packs if you like what's in them), but the scamming was pretty severe early in the league (from my limited perspective). It might help if GGG explicitly addressed what they saw, and what they did about it.

That sums it up pretty spot on.

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thurmack wrote:

I believe Maki is suggesting that he is considering buying a pack, but is deterred by the pervasive scamming that occurred in Abyss.

I'm not sure that is a helpful tactic (personally I am of the opinion that you should buy supporter packs if you like what's in them), but the scamming was pretty severe early in the league (from my limited perspective). It might help if GGG explicitly addressed what they saw, and what they did about it.

It absolutely is not helpful: no game developer is going to respond well to threats or bribery. (...and the amount of money involved here is laughably small: how far would you go for $50 to $200 in doing what someone wanted?)

Anyway, the risk of "scamming" is entirely in line with GGG's position on trade; they provide you with strong tools to ensure that item trades are the thing you paid for, and go so far as to require you to verify it. Beyond that, it is on you.

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SlippyCheeze wrote:

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thurmack wrote:

I believe Maki is suggesting that he is considering buying a pack, but is deterred by the pervasive scamming that occurred in Abyss.

I'm not sure that is a helpful tactic (personally I am of the opinion that you should buy supporter packs if you like what's in them), but the scamming was pretty severe early in the league (from my limited perspective). It might help if GGG explicitly addressed what they saw, and what they did about it.

It absolutely is not helpful: no game developer is going to respond well to threats or bribery. (...and the amount of money involved here is laughably small: how far would you go for $50 to $200 in doing what someone wanted?)

Anyway, the risk of "scamming" is entirely in line with GGG's position on trade; they provide you with strong tools to ensure that item trades are the thing you paid for, and go so far as to require you to verify it. Beyond that, it is on you.

I see from your post that you're not familiar with the depths that this community can sink to in the service of fucking over their fellow player.


What can I do as a customer when I don't like something about a product? I can exercise *voice* which I'm doing by letting GGG know that I'm unhappy with the way scamming is rampant in this game. Perhaps you have seen the threads on Reddit that lay out exactly how to take advantage of other players? I'm not alone in my disgust for this.

I can also exercise *exit* - leave entirely (taking my money with me).

My comment is a combination of both. I'm letting them know that I am one of several people who are unhappy with aspects of the game, and I'm telling them what the continued consequences will be if nothing is done.

GGG is much, much bigger than me...and I highly doubt they will take a comment like mine personally - which isn't to say they can't see that this is a serious grievance some players have.

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Makivante wrote:

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SlippyCheeze wrote:

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thurmack wrote:

I believe Maki is suggesting that he is considering buying a pack, but is deterred by the pervasive scamming that occurred in Abyss.

I'm not sure that is a helpful tactic (personally I am of the opinion that you should buy supporter packs if you like what's in them), but the scamming was pretty severe early in the league (from my limited perspective). It might help if GGG explicitly addressed what they saw, and what they did about it.

It absolutely is not helpful: no game developer is going to respond well to threats or bribery. (...and the amount of money involved here is laughably small: how far would you go for $50 to $200 in doing what someone wanted?)

Anyway, the risk of "scamming" is entirely in line with GGG's position on trade; they provide you with strong tools to ensure that item trades are the thing you paid for, and go so far as to require you to verify it. Beyond that, it is on you.

I see from your post that you're not familiar with the depths that this community can sink to in the service of fucking over their fellow player.

I'm pretty sure it is similar to the behaviour everywhere, honestly, so even if I wasn't keeping up with the scamming complaints here I'd have a fair idea.

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Makivante wrote:

What can I do as a customer when I don't like something about a product? I can exercise *voice* which I'm doing by letting GGG know that I'm unhappy with the way scamming is rampant in this game. Perhaps you have seen the threads on Reddit that lay out exactly how to take advantage of other players? I'm not alone in my disgust for this.

I can also exercise *exit* - leave entirely (taking my money with me).

Absolutely. You can, and probably should, do both. I'm not in any way trying to say that you shouldn't.

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Makivante wrote:

My comment is a combination of both. I'm letting them know that I am one of several people who are unhappy with aspects of the game, and I'm telling them what the continued consequences will be if nothing is done.

...and here you go wrong again. You are trying to support your position by:

A) claiming to speak for an unnumbered, unnamed silence group of people who are equally upset, without providing any proof of this. While well intentioned, and probably at least based in fact (eg: acquaintance of yours also complain about this), this is the classic "THE LURKERS SUPPORT ME IN EMAIL" style argument.

Claiming to speak for any one other than yourself, without at least some evidence, is a bad strategy. It makes your argument look weak, because you are trying to bolster it by creating the impression of a group of people saying the same thing, not just you.

B) specifically talking about taking away your money. That is where the threat/bribery part comes in: you don't need to say "If you don't fix this, I'm leavin, an Imma take MY MONEY AWAY SO YOU WON'T HAVE IT!!!!".

Aside from the fact that this is completely obvious to everyone - non-players are not gonna buy MTX or supporter packs - you are threatening, what, a few hundred dollars walking away? That'd probably cover less than one hour of one developer working on the project, once you factor in overheads. Might stretch to two hours if you just count the raw money handed to them in their paycheck.

A whole thousand dollars in MTX sales lost with you would cover maybe a day of developer time, even a day and a half at a stretch! Whoo! For a 100 person company that ... just isn't that much. It really, really isn't that impressive.


So, yeah, I'm exactly saying that you are telling them what the "continued consequences" will be. That is exactly what I was talking about when I said that threats are a bad way to try and convince GGG to do anything in this context.

sorry for interrupting, but what scamming are you talking about?

there is absolutely no way to get scammed in trade window. if you dont pay attention to what you are buying, you can blame yourself only

services? It has always been "at your own risk" and Im fine with that and dont want them to be officially supported. find someone with good reputation, do the stuff on your own or cooperate with friends/guild

other than that? fake listing? market manipulation? yeah, I dont like it but I doubt GGG will invest in some active market regulations

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Ludvator wrote:

other than that? fake listing? market manipulation? yeah, I dont like it but I doubt GGG will invest in some active market regulations

I'm pretty sure that even "active market regulation" would stop people from buying low, and selling high, which seems to be what half the complaints are about. "oh, no, someone is manipulating the market by purchasing things at prices people sell them at!!!"

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SlippyCheeze wrote:

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Ludvator wrote:

other than that? fake listing? market manipulation? yeah, I dont like it but I doubt GGG will invest in some active market regulations

I'm pretty sure that even "active market regulation" would stop people from buying low, and selling high, which seems to be what half the complaints are about. "oh, no, someone is manipulating the market by purchasing things at prices people sell them at!!!"

yeah, active regulations are pointless. Maybe some sort of trader reputation, but that would be totally abused. personally, I have absolutely no idea how to deal with people who list items with no intentions of selling them.. well, AH sort of thing, but that would make the game flippers paradise