Chops Flicker Ranger ... DPS Project.

what can I say ?

it's so weird but so fun!
I even dare to think that's it's not far from being balanced here, I can die with, and I do. it's single target and... it's unique... how can we really let rot this so unique and so interresting way of playing??!

it's like a crime for me!!!

it's not a feature it's a concept! sorry lol, this drive me mad!
I want so badly to be able to blink like that forever ^^.....

if pvp wasnt in the equation there wouldnt be a problem. just make the skill have a switch that disables it once engaged in pvp?

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FaceLicker wrote:

]Cleave at 4+ attacks per second is like a veritable lawn mower. Might be slower than flicker but it's much easier on the eyes!

Cleave at 5.03 attacks per sec is just beautiful... =p

"

Qarl wrote:

We realise its a popular skill as it is. The "chainsawing monsters" element is something we'd like to keep.

So a straight cooldown would take that away. One option we want to test is a cooldown that if interrupted by recasting expends a frenzy charge.

This is not perfect, but still allows the powerful chaining of the skill is some circumstances, without having endless jumping, free hits and following.

Like Chopatron said, and I agree with that, the PvP is The real problem here.
Carl solution may work for PvP...
Or some kind of RP explanation could do the trick:

- "the power of Maatz (Flicker strike) was given by Xzander, god of thunder and movement to a special sect of holy assassins in order to fight evil beings from the outside world. It's a sacred skill which can be used only against Evil and corrupted beings. when the world falled appart, the members of the sect turned against each other, and the sacred stones with the power of Maatz was lost... "

evil beings : all the outside mobs, corrupted beings : bad users of Flicker strike.
in this way FS can only lock mobs and other users of FS (in PvP).
(I can imagine a 6 players FS team against another 6 team FS, lol, it'll be insane!)

Only some thoughts. netheirtheless I'll try to find a way to use FS even if nerfed (was thinking a lot this night...).

have a good day!

last up for last comments about Flicker strike ?

I see a lot of people around using and loving fS without knowing that the last days for using it in this way, are coming soon.

maybe at least Qarl could tell us when we'll could try a new version of FS?

Making the skill expend frenzy charges is an awful idea in my opinion. First of all, it will limit the usage of the skill to frenzy builds and leave it just as a blinkstrike getaway/teleport for the rest of the melees out there. While this might be fine, even in frenzy builds it will only be used as a finisher, leaving you with no charges at the end (which sucks since you have to rebuild them).

The skill is fun to be used continually, and for me the ideal attackspeed/animation is at about 2.2 attacks per second. That's when the skill feels great, your head doesn't blow and you feel like you're abusing it, but still have to be careful how to aim it.

The best way to fix it is simply to cap the animation speed to for example 0.4 seconds, making higher attack speed irrelevant. This way, frenzy builds get only part of their dps with it (which is ok since they are FRENZY builds), while hybrid builds or regular melee builds can still aim to reach the cap speed and put everything else into damage/survivability.

A regular cooldown would suck since it would destroy the "hold key while mouse homing for ranged/strays/bosses and be careful not to get swarmed" approach which makes the skill play so great and give the great lightning-fast assassin feel to it. Capping the attack speed is mechanically equivalent to a cooldown on this skill and it would still retain it's current strategical utility.

The other problem people are yelling about is the dps and pvp impact. As far as the dps is concerned, it can be tuned up or down, you can modify the crit to some useless quality (like accuracy) and balance it to be used by many builds as a viable 1/2 of their gameplan (you still need aoe).

For PVP, just nerf the damage. Or nerf the range. Or even better - give other builds weapons to fight it (like better summons, iron maiden, improve evasion, stun on being hit, damage shields).

All classes have something that keeps them playing, and for many melees it's flicker strike. I'm ok not having 10.000 dps on aoe charged bolt and having 15.000 on single attack flicker strike. So just leave it at that and kill the 100.000dps abusable builds by making a cap. But please don't ruin the skill.

its imbalanced in pvp from fundamental usage of the skill.

its an instant speed gap closer with no cool down for melee and melee ranged attack/spells, that ranged or lesser geared players have no recourse against.

that very basic aspect makes it to strong w/o a counterpart in the game.

compare it to .... lightning warp lol...

i run at you , you run away.

i phase run, you phase run.

you lightning warp to me, i can run away b4 cast time.

leap slam being closest to it but still has travel time much like lightning warp.

i flicker strike onto me, we fight melee range.

flicker can do 0 dmg and still be pvp imbalanced unless counterpart is implemented.

teleports always are. look at flash in LoL, or enigma in d2 for 2 examples.

might as well take cast time off of lightning warp and just have a teleport fight until oom.

its stupid with a lot of specs.

i.e.

have a discharger sit 2 screens away with 20% enduring + 20% aoe gem + templar talent + fcr charge up out of range then flicker onto you to explode.

its more than just the flicker strike damage that breaks the skill, its the whole basic usage of it.

thats my opinion of the skill.

pve ... its fine as most all single target attacks are. they could do 1,000,000 dps in pve and will never be a high producing spec unless boss farming enters the equation.

So, the final verdict of Mr Chopatron is that FS is (somewhat) ok for PvE but definitly over powered (imbalanced by nature) for PvP.

I've never disagreed with that, and we can start thinking from this basis instead of ruining this popular skill in both PvE and PvP setting.

I hope that Qarl will read our comments and give us (FS lovers) some hope about it...

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Chopatron wrote:

its imbalanced in pvp from fundamental usage of the skill.

First of all, nobody played pvp yet so at least implement it first and then consider approaching the skill. That's why it's a beta right?

Second, for people being so scared about this skill, did you ever play d2? How is a teleporting barb + whirlind any different than flicker strike? How are stun assassins that can permastun mindblast you any different? How are guided arrows that pierce through you or bone necros that can kill you from 2 screens away with homing spirits any different? And yet, diablo2 pvp was immensely fun exactly because everybody felt they were doing something imbalanced. The imbalances were just balanced compared to one another (not just through nerfs, but through gear, manacost etc.) And the fights were extremely dynamic and exciting (until blizzard left the game to rot at least).

If you nerf the range even by just a little you might very well be dead before you reach anybody if you just mindlessly charge. You run at me, i cast 3 frozen walls and start ice spearing, what now? Flicker strike is weaker than teleport in diablo 2 (you need a target, range is smaller), and that skill was fine.

And BTW, if you think fllicker will be the apocalypse, what about shield charge? With run speed and phase run it's basically the same thing, but it stuns you as well. And I'm a tank with 75% block on top of that. Let's nerf this one too then heh? Or even better let's just remove all skills for pvp and leave only autoattacks, this way it will be balanced for sure. -,- Then dumb down the game some more and call it diablo3.

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scornanddeceit wrote:

First of all, nobody played pvp yet so at least implement it first and then consider approaching the skill. That's why it's a beta right?

it is beta, and there is lots of theorycraft around. i wouldnt be against waiting till pvp is implemented. problem is flicker has been the #1 op pvp pick since day 1 i started by myself and pretty much every other player ive talked to in game or known. people see it, devs have known it, everyone knows it. in the end its the devs decision.

should be thinking of ways to change it to keep it in the game usable that still resembles its current form in some way. defending its current form is a 100% lost cause imo.

i liked the direction of your ideas in previous post. is much the same as what im saying. give others a defensive option that corresponds with it to fight against it.

if they nerf the damage do you really think you'd hold the key and use it as main attack instead of switching to a different attack after closing the distance? i doubt you would if damage was off. thus it still kills the current form of it, and turns it into a gap closer as it will be anyways now for all other melee not pure flicker build.

(trying to help here for the flicker lovers)

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scornanddeceit wrote:

Second, for people being so scared about this skill, did you ever play d2? How is a teleporting barb + whirlind any different than flicker strike? How are stun assassins that can permastun mindblast you any different? How are guided arrows that pierce through you or bone necros that can kill you from 2 screens away with homing spirits any different? And yet, diablo2 pvp was immensely fun exactly because everybody felt they were doing something imbalanced. The imbalances were just balanced compared to one another (not just through nerfs, but through gear, manacost etc.) And the fights were extremely dynamic and exciting (until blizzard left the game to rot at least).

enigma was on barbs as a staple for the same reason my posts suggest. it was manditory to compete.

not sure the relevance of mindblast assassins, they go into same category as bowas. the time it takes you to get to them is their opportunity to win the fight. probability of winning drops big after melee reaches them.

pnb necros made use of enigma, spirits + spears from off screen while kiting with tele.

hammerdins = enigma.

smiters abused charge (poe shield charge)

d2 teleport's balance or best attempt was making it available for all classes via rune word, which is partially my point in poe.


i had a lot of fun in d2, played for years, but cant further debate duel games because of timeline issues. i played 08-.10 and smiters / hammerdins dominated when i quit. no way to tell afterwards.

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scornanddeceit wrote:

If you nerf the range even by just a little you might very well be dead before you reach anybody if you just mindlessly charge. You run at me, i cast 3 frozen walls and start ice spearing, what now? Flicker strike is weaker than teleport in diablo 2 (you need a target, range is smaller), and that skill was fine.

can you spear through walls? i honestly dont know. either way you phase run off and let him sit behind walls in corner and go kill something else, and wait for him to come out.

your right in the comparison of flicker vs enigma, there's nothing close to flicker in poe for non melee is my point. its extremely strong offense w/o a defensive counterpart for escape. the scale does go both ways, if gap closers are to bad then ranged dominates, if they are to good melee range dominates. theres a balance in the middle somewhere or at least close. right now, melee + flicker will dominate, is not hard to see that imo.

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scornanddeceit wrote:

And BTW, if you think fllicker will be the apocalypse, what about shield charge? With run speed and phase run it's basically the same thing, but it stuns you as well. And I'm a tank with 75% block on top of that. Let's nerf this one too then heh? Or even better let's just remove all skills for pvp and leave only autoattacks, this way it will be balanced for sure. -,- Then dumb down the game some more and call it diablo3.

shield charge is prolly 2nd best gap closer, it scales off attack speed btw (last i checked) very well, link faster attacks to it and shift cast it.

problem with it being it requires shield and melee weapon (i think?). doesnt work for wands / bows / 2h. now compare that to phase run ... see now? phase run is the best all around mobility skill in the game. is why 90% of classes have it on a hotkey. difference being its availible to all.

the last few lines of your post totally discredits your entire post btw. its a discussion over 1 skill in the game which you blow totally out of proportion vs rest of the game with a desperate "whine", and then compare it to a game that a good majority of the market seem to like lol. edit that part out and its a fairly good post.

im not here to flame or fight, ill debate all day long but wont be drawn in by comments like that :p.