GGG COMPLETELY fucked up endgame in Abyss...

"

petewulf wrote:

Just ran 8 maps between 8 and 12 with 100+IIR and 40-50 IIR and did not get ANY SINGLE, NOT A SINGLE TIER 1 map back. Are you serious?

That's probably because your atlas bonus is 100 or more. If you want T1 maps to drop you'll have to lower it to at most 99, the less the better /s

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Xavathos wrote:

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Cogburn wrote:

Holy hell adghar said it well

Agreed. In before he's branded "white knight", dismissed and ignored by those he so avidly attempts to reach out to.

The problem with adghar's post is that GGG was referring to people expecting to easily do high level content when reaching it. The rest of us are saying that doing high level content once every blue moon or paying for it is really offputting for the players that laugh at t15- maps. They actually find them too easy, not too hard.

And it's the same for me. I run 10 well rolled t16 maps and get less than 10 t11-13 as returns. What am i supposed to do with them? I'd rather exit the game and play something engaging instead.

i never complained about the map system and i won't do it now. dropped my first ever tier 16 map yesterday and ran it, vaaled it with dangerous mods and got help from a support and a strong minotaur farmer of some sort. ended up losing the portals and not killing the boss...
my biggest concern is becoming strong enough and good enough at the game to do them.
the constant grind tires me out tho, i' fine running 10-15 tier maps and they drop from time to time, i often hunt lower areas as well for whatever reason, i farm prophecys as well, works pretty well.
not sure why people are complaining so much, i'm surprised people can get 150 completion on the atlas so fast.
...perhaps there are some map and trading problems... but that doesn't give me a reason to complain about it, i would rather suggest a fix for the people instead of complaining about it myself

"

Pyrokar wrote:

The problem with adghar's post is that GGG was referring to people expecting to easily do high level content when reaching it. The rest of us are saying that doing high level content once every blue moon or paying for it is really offputting for the players that laugh at t15- maps. They actually find them too easy, not too hard.

And it's the same for me. I run 10 well rolled t16 maps and get less than 10 t11-13 as returns. What am i supposed to do with them? I'd rather exit the game and play something engaging instead.

The underlined part is whats bugging me the most right now. Because its true.

Guardians are meant to be tough. Thats fine, no issue here.
The issue is, that once your build is good enough to take them on, the regular mapping content is easy.
Once your build can take on fully buffed Guardians with crazy mods, the regular mapping content is a boring snooze fest.

T15 bosses are laughable at this point.
Fight starts, Boss drops dead immediately and triggers the next phase.
You go through this several times per bossfight, realizing the boss itself does absolutely nothing but dropping dead asap and in the end you get loot (more often than not) not even worth looking at.


Essentially Guardians are scaled in way, that the game turns into supereasy mode once you can kill them. At this point you are down to farm rather boring (read not challenging) content and hope for toptier maps to drop, so you can challenge your build once in a while.
Or you dont care about challenge at all, run your shaped maps til your eyes are bleeding and you dont even know where to put your currency.

Im not complaining about map drops. Working out good enough this league and Id say drops are fine, which is obviously my opinion based on my experiences this league.
But I kinda do complain about the difficulty scaling. It feels weird to me right now.

"

Orbaal wrote:

"

Pyrokar wrote:

The problem with adghar's post is that GGG was referring to people expecting to easily do high level content when reaching it. The rest of us are saying that doing high level content once every blue moon or paying for it is really offputting for the players that laugh at t15- maps. They actually find them too easy, not too hard.

And it's the same for me. I run 10 well rolled t16 maps and get less than 10 t11-13 as returns. What am i supposed to do with them? I'd rather exit the game and play something engaging instead.

The underlined part is whats bugging me the most right now. Because its true.

Guardians are meant to be tough. Thats fine, no issue here.
The issue is, that once your build is good enough to take them on, the regular mapping content is easy.
Once your build can take on fully buffed Guardians with crazy mods, the regular mapping content is a boring snooze fest.

T15 bosses are laughable at this point.
Fight starts, Boss drops dead immediately and triggers the next phase.
You go through this several times per bossfight, realizing the boss itself does absolutely nothing but dropping dead asap and in the end you get loot (more often than not) not even worth looking at.


Essentially Guardians are scaled in way, that the game turns into supereasy mode once you can kill them. At this point you are down to farm rather boring (read not challenging) content and hope for toptier maps to drop, so you can challenge your build once in a while.
Or you dont care about challenge at all, run your shaped maps til your eyes are bleeding and you dont even know where to put your currency.

Im not complaining about map drops. Working out good enough this league and Id say drops are fine, which is obviously my opinion based on my experiences this league.
But I kinda do complain about the difficulty scaling. It feels weird to me right now.

A valid concern to be sure. I wonder if more people feel this way. I can't add to it myself as I've not started farming guardians yet. Just doing T10-14 mostly.

"

petewulf wrote:

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Chalace2 wrote:

Even with the worst RNG in the game, there is no way you did 8 properly rolled maps without getting a single map drop. It simply would not happen. It most likely wouldn't even happen if they were 8 unrolled white maps.

This right here is the 'known issue' you are referring to. People blatantly lying to prove their point.
Sure bad RNG may sometimes prevent you progressing the atlas in regards to +1 drops for a short time, but this... your talking shit.

Ok, tell me more, looks like you have special knowledge in mathematics.
With the worst RNG in game i would never ever get any map. Never. Ever.

Also why are you accusing others for lying? Could do the same to you but thats not my intention. Its just yours.

I don't need 'special knowledge in mathematics' whatever that may be.
Because your 'true statement' is borderline impossible. Like, tripping on the street, only to find a winning lottery ticket sat on the floor, beside your face. Then again the next day.

After thousands of maps, I can't even remember the last time one gave me nothing back. You're trying to say you ran 8 decked out maps in a row and got zero map drops... C'mon

"

adghar wrote:

...you can get T15 maps for at most 7 vaal a pop, or 8 chaos for a pessimist. Turns into 14 vaal/15-16 chaos for T16. Not really outrageous to experience top-level content, in my opinion.

Good points. Ok so: don't you think that, right there, is massively dysfunctional in terms of providing a satisfying progression mechanic.

I can buy a high tier map for a measly amount of currency. 7C, really almost nothing after playing a week or two. So then WHY can't I EARN that map with something approaching the same ease? Maps are not items - maps *ARE* the game. The main mechanic for advancing in the game itself shouldn't be to trade for it. (Unless the individual prefers that! That's ok too.) Trade for items & currency, yes. But for crying out loud, provide a satisfying map progression mechanic that is not RNG walled as it is now.

"

Orbaal wrote:

Guardians are meant to be tough. Thats fine, no issue here.
The issue is, that once your build is good enough to take them on, the regular mapping content is easy.
Once your build can take on fully buffed Guardians with crazy mods, the regular mapping content is a boring snooze fest.

T15 bosses are laughable at this point.
Fight starts, Boss drops dead immediately and triggers the next phase.
You go through this several times per bossfight, realizing the boss itself does absolutely nothing but dropping dead asap and in the end you get loot (more often than not) not even worth looking at.


Essentially Guardians are scaled in way, that the game turns into supereasy mode once you can kill them. At this point you are down to farm rather boring (read not challenging) content and hope for toptier maps to drop, so you can challenge your build once in a while.
Or you dont care about challenge at all, run your shaped maps til your eyes are bleeding and you dont even know where to put your currency.

Im not complaining about map drops. Working out good enough this league and Id say drops are fine, which is obviously my opinion based on my experiences this league.
But I kinda do complain about the difficulty scaling. It feels weird to me right now.

Are you seriously asking for an ARPG game to be challenging at every gear level for the same boss? This is exactly what an ARPG does, and PoE does it well. Gear is supposed to blow everything out of the water at some point, with enough investment.

Well...

"

Thraellic wrote:

satisfying map progression mechanic

"

Orbaal wrote:

"

Pyrokar wrote:

The problem with adghar's post is that GGG was referring to people expecting to easily do high level content when reaching it. The rest of us are saying that doing high level content once every blue moon or paying for it is really offputting for the players that laugh at t15- maps. They actually find them too easy, not too hard.

And it's the same for me. I run 10 well rolled t16 maps and get less than 10 t11-13 as returns. What am i supposed to do with them? I'd rather exit the game and play something engaging instead.

The issue is, that once your build is good enough to take them on, the regular mapping content is easy.
Once your build can take on fully buffed Guardians with crazy mods, the regular mapping content is a boring snooze fest.

T15 bosses are laughable at this point.
Fight starts, Boss drops dead immediately and triggers the next phase.
You go through this several times per bossfight, realizing the boss itself does absolutely nothing but dropping dead asap and in the end you get loot (more often than not) not even worth looking at.

After reading dissenting opinions, I'm starting to get the feeling that - if there are a great many players who feel this way (content for their efforts is too easy) - it's probably, unfortunately, time to march forward that great wheel of Power Creep. IF GGG wants to keep the vision of top-level content being difficult (both to obtain and to play through), we probably need a few more tiers added, and move the Guardians to T19 and Shaper to T20, or something dumb like that. Because here is how I perceive GGG's vision: If you have gone through enough pains of character development for "T15 bosses" to be "laughable" - you should at that point be "good enough" at the game to have no issues generating currency to buy the Maps that fit your power level. If, on the other hand, people are consistently trivializing T15, but having trouble sustaining Map purchases, then there's a mismatch between effort required to reach a certain power level and effort required to accommodate it.

In a phrase, GGG wants relatively infrequent, difficult top-level content... but that probably doesn't work (isn't satisfying) if the "difficult" part is not there.

Hate to bring player power levels back into this, but it seems highly relevant here.

EDIT: For some reason I like repeating myself today, so:

"

Miská wrote:

Gear is supposed to blow everything out of the water at some point, with enough investment.

The issue is that if "enough investment" is too low of a threshold, people will be unsatisfied with content difficulty/content availability mismatch. Is it? I don't play powergamishly/often enough to say for sure.

"

adghar wrote:

Grinding Gear Games makes Games about Grinding.

PoE should be about grinding for rewards, not grinding to access content.

Gating access to high level content behind RNG is the fundamental problem here.