Shower thought on how to make players care about deaths.

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grepman wrote:

what stops me from logging out and back in to skip this scene anyway,?

sorry, 10s (or 60s) is not meaningful price to pay for a death

Why are people so uncreative, there'd just be a timer and logging out wouldn't do anything. ;)

And I don't want to increase or decrease the price, just the perception of death, since GGG seems to be too scared to make deaths more punishing. (there have been coutnless threads about this the last years)

The whole "whatever, lets just boom boom zoom zoom and die here and there" is an embarassing and unhealthy way to approach an aRPG.

Giving the player more feedback that what just happened is actually really bad and should be avoided might change this a bit.

Before they do something like that, they need to make sure that you die for good reasons. With Chris Wilson thinking that instant logout is a good thing, oneshots will continue to be a thing. And deaths will thus keep being frustrating.

So yeah, good way to make people even more frustrated after dying. Probably great for player retention.


EDIT: Can I decide what is the right way to approach an ARPG myself? Cool. If you find death not punishing enough, play Hardcore. If you find death too punishing, you on the other hand have no option (other than not playing)...

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Char1983 wrote:

EDIT: Can I decide what is the right way to approach an ARPG myself? Cool. If you find death not punishing enough, play Hardcore. If you find death too punishing, you on the other hand have no option (other than not playing)...

There's no point in getting triggered like that, never said I want to make death more punishing.

They whole idea and point in here is to make it more meaningful without altering the degree of punishment. (this is the 3rd time I go over this again now...)

On death, your webcam takes a picture of your face and uploads it to the forum.

Wolf

Insulting and frustrating players is not a good thing for player retention. Insulting and frustrating players on purpose would be an even worse thing for player retention. GGG is concerned about player retention and so I can't imagine them even entertaining such an idea?

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widardd wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

EDIT: Can I decide what is the right way to approach an ARPG myself? Cool. If you find death not punishing enough, play Hardcore. If you find death too punishing, you on the other hand have no option (other than not playing)...

There's no point in getting triggered like that, never said I want to make death more punishing.

They whole idea and point in here is to make it more meaningful without altering the degree of punishment. (this is the 3rd time I go over this again now...)

So given that you would force me to look at some screen laughing in my face after I die to a lag spike, which clearly makes it more punishing, what would you change / how would you reduce the current death penalty to make it less punishing, for a net zero effect?

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widardd wrote:

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grepman wrote:

what stops me from logging out and back in to skip this scene anyway,?

sorry, 10s (or 60s) is not meaningful price to pay for a death

Why are people so uncreative, there'd just be a timer and logging out wouldn't do anything. ;)

this has nothing to do about creativity, and everything about implementation.

like Ive said, imagine I quit poe process after death. there is no poe process running on my computer. lets say I did it by disabling and enabling my network adapter

lets walk though this with me, imagine you're doing QA.

scene starts playing. I stop poe process on my system.
I then launch poe. does it play that scene now ? no since the launcher is different than your in-game state and does not know about your in-game state. your client doesnt know shit about your server side until you login.

then I have to login through authentication server. scene now ? no. then its the toon selector screen. since its possible to log out on more than one toon and never log back in again, it wouldnt even know what scene to play, lol.

so realistically, the only time to show the scene is after you login into a specific toon. this means, you have to have a timer state stored somewhere and play a video if timer is not expired.


you see, you cant really reliably detect the exact time a tcp/ip connection got disconnected. you do a poll and say that it got disconnected in this time period. then what do you do with this timer ? does it still countdown ? restart the video and dont remove the timer until you've watched it all ?

What makes you think players don't care about dying? It totally sucks. I don't want to see any stupid cut scenes when I'm already angry about dying to random and unavoidable aoe and sneaky mobs.

If GGG wants to retain more players, they should change the death penalty from a 5% or 10% loss of xp to a penalty on xp gain for 5% or 10% of the current level.

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Turtledove wrote:

Insulting and frustrating players is not a good thing for player retention. Insulting and frustrating players on purpose would be an even worse thing for player retention. GGG is concerned about player retention and so I can't imagine them even entertaining such an idea?

A laughing atziri qualifies as "insult" and "frustration" already?

The batmans series seems to have done well with mocking death scenes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOQBh5QMlsk

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grepman wrote:

you cant really reliably detect the exact time a tcp/ip connection got disconnected.

You don't have to, just set a global flag upon death and as long as you haven't hit the end of that CG yet it will be repeated over and over again on any instance, on any character.

Since leaving the game is not intended nor avoiding this mocking scene, unexpected or "annoying" results would be legitimate.

I connection can't be this terrible so that a player can't get through a 10s window every 10hrs.

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Char1983 wrote:

Before they do something like that, they need to make sure that you die for good reasons. With Chris Wilson thinking that instant logout is a good thing, oneshots will continue to be a thing. And deaths will thus keep being frustrating...

My thoughts exactly. There are way too many unfair deaths in this game. Sometimes it's because of the lack of accuracy of the input handling (how often have you gone down the wrong corridor in a trap gauntlet and hit the spikes which do not pop up in the corridor you actually clicked?), the internet lags, the gfx spam which occasionally hides even the most dangerous elements, the absolutely insane damage spikes due to 101 different possible "more damage" modifiers? Fuck no, death is already frustrating enough in this game.